PuppetCancer
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 6, 2004 5:23:13 GMT
dammit- so is it final that my man Gunn aint gonna make it ? BTW- IMO we're not moving slow at all. so whoever said that Now, I dont like the idea of ending on a cliffhanger and then opening the season on that very spot. cuz Ive always liked it that BTVS and ATS never did that, and were pretty accurate in whatever month it actually was; but I guess that(or something like it, maybe flashback) may hafta happen. Theres been alotta talk about chaos. like Angel tipped the scale(that was balanced) and now all wackiness will ensue. So how bout if the "Alley" ( can we agree to just go by the cliffhanger by that one word, btw? so much simpler for us simples) scene ends up being rather anticlimatic? ok, so maybe they tipped the scales, yadda yadda, and esentially, the big evils(like the black thorn) that were orchestrating all these lesser evil, are gone, so all hell begins to break loose. and how bout , yall probably gonna think this'll be lame,just thought it up though. They took out the BlackThorne(CBT) so now its kinda like Angel and Co are in charge. But obviously , that idea has complications,what Im getting at, is that perhaps all these evils in some sorta way now look at them with respect. and someone they misconstrue the four of them for being evil, and kinda just leave them alone. "Lets go to work" Angel says as draws his sword. All these demons begin charging, getting closer and closer.... but they walk right by them. They dont even acknowledge them , rather they just start going to work on the city. pillaging and doing what demons do best. Angel just has a puzzled look on his face and murmurs something like "how bout that?" and as theyre pillaging, Spike could be faux-pillaging, kicking garbage cans or something, to look like hes one of them. Like I said, doubt anyone will like that idea, but just that and idea. As for Oz-Im still basically viloently against the idea of Buffy or any scoobies showing up. Ok, MAYBE Giles or Willow could be fit in, but personally, Im kinda fed up with Buffy(and NOT SMG). plus theyved moved on. even more than Buffy, I think Xander would be a bigger no no. he dont like either one, it wouldnt make sense to me. anyways, as I was trying to say. at first I thought Oz sounded corny, then I thought about it and started liking it. But like everything else, it needs to be done right. for starters, his introdcution, needs to be the centerpiece of the ep, not just him and a buncha werewolf buddies of his coming to save them(ugh) but maybe after the first few eps, after everything started to get straightened out there could be an Oz ep. I thought up this- Nina comes back, from wherever Angel sent her. talking bout how shes starting to learn some things about being a werewolf. She tells Angel that shes been attending WA(werewolf anonymous) classes and would like him to be her sponsor. they go to the class only to see that Oz is the instructor, guest speaker, whatever. Just an idea. I liked it, though, not that obvious, but very Buffy-verse quirky if I say so myself PuppetCancer out
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Post by Joss on Jun 6, 2004 5:30:29 GMT
Hey man!
Good to know that you can finally use your accout. Thank god we were finally able to straighten all of the account shit out.
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PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 6, 2004 5:38:43 GMT
LoL. u have no idea. shit was hectic but like I said, really preciate your help oh so much so whatd think of the ideas ? ? ?
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Post by Joss on Jun 6, 2004 5:50:39 GMT
YOu got some interesting ideas there.
Okay, I like the idea of them gaining the respect of the evil beings, but I think it is mostly for the comedic potential behind. IE: Angel saying to random demon for the 567 time "I AM NOT EVIL!"
As for Oz, that´s an interesting idea you got there. But I dunno. I am not really that enthusiastic of the idea of a werewolves anonymous, it just seems a little... too conventional. I´d rather have some kind of a big bang bring him back into the whole Angel verse.
But overall, you got some interesting ideas there. We gotta see what our other members think about it.
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PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 6, 2004 6:25:57 GMT
IMO, it doesnt make sense for Oz to come to LA seeking out Angel to warn him of something, I mean , they dont have a friendship.
it has to be his own reason for showing up and bumping into them
take wes for example- he showed up hunting a demon and just happened to bump into Angel. they were never close. they werent friends. he was doing his own thing, their paths crossed, and the rest was history.
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Post by Joss on Jun 6, 2004 6:30:40 GMT
Hey man, could we move the whole Oz discussion to the "Characters for our story" thread. It just seems grossly out of place to discuss this here.
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PuppetCancer
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I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 6, 2004 6:51:45 GMT
LoL. ur kinda nit-picky on that subject, huh ? Sorry, man, but when Im brainstorming, I dont wanna waste time by jumping forums. I hear some mention something, then the ball gets rolling. where it'll drop nobody knows. Im sure Im not the only one. no offense, but you should 'lax on that issue. But yes, I will TRY to make sure everything is in its place. just like socks PuppetCancer Out
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Post by ChrsgemATL on Jun 6, 2004 19:31:40 GMT
HEY IDEA!!!!! Ok seems like im full of them these days.
I say we open it with all of our characters in a bar, including, Gunn, and Wesley, ya know all the originals. Fred should be there too as FRed not Ilyrian. They are all talking about past adventures and we go to each character and when we come to them there will be a flashback showing what happened to that person. I think GUnn should go up first and we should show him dying or "fading" as Ilyrian so aptly put it during the battle. We wont have to describe the battle in much detail but make it look like hes dead. THen we go bqck to the table and Gunn makes a toast to the afterlife and they all raise thier hands. - The shocker!!! EVERYONE AT THE TABLE IS DEAD! Well thats what it will look like anyway. Fred is up next and we could show Ilyrian doing good in battle but becoming overrun. THey decide that they need to escape each there own way which wever covered. Angel gets killed by the dragon, Spike comes to a dead end in the sewer just as warriors close in on him. Ilryrian gets killed by some giant demon think we saw in the backround. BUt it should be told flashback like we show FRed at the table (or describe it) then goto Ilryrian and then back to FRed then back to Iyrian and we could do that with each character, Ie Spike and Angel. If written well it you could drag out each of their escapes a little and making it flashbacky (is that a word) so that the reader is hanging on the edge of their seat like WHAT HAPPENED??? Towards the end of the ep though Cordy walks into the bar. Everyone kinda continues to drink and talk but Angel gets up to greet her and they talk and she kinda caress Angels face and says something like always were the dreamer. You know it cant end this way. WEll actually it would have to be better planned but the ep ends on wher they arent dead they are being held by TPB who took them out just as each was about to die. They are in limbo/hell and it ends with ANgel waking up all bloddy and bruised looking up at his cell. End of episode one.
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PuppetCancer
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I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 6, 2004 20:20:39 GMT
IMO, that wouldnt work. Im of the "when theyre dead theyre dead" variety, and I think having them all just end up being alive isnt right.
however, if it were simply a dream, I could see it. I could see Angel dreaming of better times, and then abruptly waking up in the new L A. the post Black thorn, pillaged burned and bruised L A
Puppet Cancer out
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Post by Drew on Jun 6, 2004 20:55:50 GMT
Also, the same sort of season opening has been done with the fourth season opener "Deep Down."
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Post by ChrsgemATL on Jun 7, 2004 1:56:11 GMT
IMO, that wouldnt work. Im of the "when theyre dead theyre dead" variety, and I think having them all just end up being alive isnt right. however, if it were simply a dream, I could see it. I could see Angel dreaming of better times, and then abruptly waking up in the new L A. the post Black thorn, pillaged burned and bruised L A Puppet Cancer out Im sorry I didnt make that part clear. YEs it would just be a dream ANgel is having. Its been done before but Angel and Buffy have worked out killer openers and episodes through dreams and illusions. THe point is to suggest that they are dead when in actuality they never really died. TPB took them out before that could happen and we find that Angel and Co have been locked up. However i was thinking what if when we have cordy come in she kinda reveals what has been going on, how they are being held but they are now going to be released. ANgel asks why and she crypticlly says you know why. ANd poof there Angel is in the Alley or roof. Chaos is running rampant in LA and thats how we begin the season. Also the next few eps could have different characters in different places. I think that if we do the intervention thing that maybe we should keep Gunn alive. I think we should turn him evil though towards the end of the season.
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PuppetCancer
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I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 7, 2004 4:16:39 GMT
ok, now Im confused are U saying that the illusion of happier times and them all being alive is just Angel dreaming. or that a majority of s5 was a dream or something ? ? ?
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Post by Drew on Jun 7, 2004 7:58:38 GMT
Putting aside the character of Grace, what do you guys think of the idea of the system of TPTB being destroyed? The same has happened to the system of W&H. So now there is no evil system and no good system.
basically, someone or something did the same thing to the Powers that angel did to the SPs.
Like? Dislike? Thoughts?
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Post by IAMCHRSGEMATL on Jun 7, 2004 16:19:55 GMT
LOL,
Sorry to be so confusing. What I ment was that the first episode should have them dead, a bar in heaven lets say. And make it look like there celebrating because like everyone said Angel and Co were ready to do battle and go out fighting. Theyve accomplished this. Did in the WRH office in LA and stopped the Black Thorn. Maybe we should make it seem like stopping the Black Thorn stopped the apocolypse and the world is safe for now. Just the temporary stop halted the SP plans and therefore they will need to start all over setting up a new apocolypse. So in essance they are celebrating because they won and saved humanity. Hell lets even have spike and Angel eating bar chips and commenting on what it like to be human again.
But alas, when Cordy enters the bar it becomes clear that this is just Angels, (or maybe even Spikes) fantasy and reality TPB are holding them. They didnt die fighting or even got the chance. The SP are now raising hell in LA (maybe the SP are doing this in an attempt to get TPB to send Angel back to LA - another random thought) and now they are going to be sent back. Also this could set up what Drew was saying about having a similar attack on the powers. I like that idea because its like you fought the system and now there is none! Everything is up for grabs.
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Post by IAMCHRSGEMATL on Jun 7, 2004 16:24:01 GMT
Sorry I cant log in but my password is at my home email. Im at work...sssshhh....lol.
Oh and so things are clear nothing last year was a dream its just the part about them in a bar.
Oh and not to throw more ideas in the mix but when we have Angel and co go back to LA, maybe have Conner fighting in his absence? I think Conner should be brought back in somehow as well as Gwen Raiden. I think that keeping Gunn in would help with some sort of Gwen/Gunn story. They kind aleft all that open didnt they? I mean they slept together right and that was it?? What happened to her? I really liked her character.
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Post by ChrsgemATL on Jun 8, 2004 2:16:50 GMT
Joss_Whedon thanks for the Buffy thread.
Final apocolypse is slowly approaching. Buffy has come back to be with ANgel and they are happy for a moment, untill she is killed (or made a vamp and then killed) ANgel goes off the deep end just in time for hell on earth to come. We should have a hell mouth/portal open in the middle of LA. Spike Fre/Ilryain, whoever else is around are there to fight it but no ANgel. ANgel after losing BUffy again, maybe even after having to dust her himself, has made him give up. Everyone is on their own to fight without him which is what the SP want. THey wanted him out of the fight since he was so unpredictable and they have no clue which side he would fight on. Spike and the others dont care, Spike is the champion Shanshu talks about and he thinks hes the one and the reader will believe that after events throughout the season. But in the final battle it looks like things arent what the seem and Spike isnt the the champion, it was Angel. Just as all seems lost Angel comes out (maybe even after having some emotional talk with i dunno someone like Buffys spirit, Cordy or something or maybe just kinda surpise the audience with his sudden arrival. Hes there and hes made his choice - to fight. Final battle, angel sacrificies himself whatever the rest of you can come up with here. It ends with ANgel getting his reward, hes been told that the death of all his friends and family, Wes, Buffy, Doyle Cordy all the pain all the suffering was ment to happen. He had to go through all those heart aches to become the ultimate champion and HE had to make the final choice to fight or not. At this point I dont know what to end it on, i thought about the ultimate happy ending, Buffys alive Angel and Spike are human, Conners happy, Earth Dimension is safe, hell even all the portals are closed and the demons have all fled. The world is normal for the first time ever but i dunno how you guys feel about this.
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Post by Joss on Jun 8, 2004 2:27:25 GMT
This is the problem with having new people join us. (sorry if this makes it sound too insluting)
Due to major negative feedback we nixxed the Buffy siring idea a while ago, just like the return of Angelus idea. Although we did have the idea of a vamped slayer showing up, we never came to an agreement on that.
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Post by IAMCHRSGEMATL on Jun 8, 2004 13:10:49 GMT
Yea I see the Buffy being vamped idea was nixed but I was really aiming for killing her character. Ive always looked at the show when they killed off good friends of Angels as what is suppossed to happen. Hes suppossed to suffer and the only way to do that is to give him everything a human has and then take it away, all of his relationships seem to end in the last few years, whether it was friend of foe. Even Lorne has left and Ive always thought that was the point, give just to take it away. Thats why I was so keene on the Buffy death idea.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 8, 2004 19:14:46 GMT
The thing is Buffy isn't Angels...he's with Nina now. The Girl in Question was to be the final word on their relationship -its over, time to move on. No reason for them to hook up now.
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PuppetCancer
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 9, 2004 0:03:29 GMT
dont like Buffy being involved. the idea of them being in some sorta heaven and then we, fred, gunn and everyone alive I dont like.
I generally dislike the idea of "cheating" any deaths so to speak and having dream sequences. I dont like ressurections...but I want Gunn to survive we clear ;D
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