PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 16, 2004 6:22:23 GMT
"revealing demons to the public"
Why not reveal Angel Spike and Illyria to a majority of the city? ? ? also reveal that they are the ones responsible for whatever turmoil/chaos will be going on
humans can be scary
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Post by LizaP on Jun 16, 2004 6:32:48 GMT
Humans ARE scary.
What would revealing Angel, Spoike and Illyria to the rest of the city do? I really don't think it would accomplish anything. I think the goal would be to reveal the real demons and monsters and our heros are not the demons and monsters. Vampires and fallen gods, but not evil demons.
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 16, 2004 11:53:31 GMT
"revealing demons to the public" Why not reveal Angel Spike and Illyria to a majority of the city? ? ? also reveal that they are the ones responsible for whatever turmoil/chaos will be going on humans can be scary I don't suppose it really matters but if this idea was used it would kinda be the same plot as the new Blade movie which is coming out soon. Just thought that two Vampire stories with similar plots and same time may be a waste...
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Post by Drew on Jun 16, 2004 18:49:05 GMT
What's the new Blade movie about. I've never even seen 1 or 2.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 17, 2004 7:11:33 GMT
I don't suppose it really matters but if this idea was used it would kinda be the same plot as the new Blade movie which is coming out soon. Just thought that two Vampire stories with similar plots and same time may be a waste... Bah, another reason to hate the over-hyped (imho) Blade films. Although, this new one has Ryan Reynolds in it, so I'll probably check it out.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 17, 2004 7:31:57 GMT
With the themes and even just the general "chaos through order" going on this season....maybe this would be a good time to re-introduce "The Scourge" and try to actually make them cool this time rather than the thinly veiled Nazi carbon copies from S1. It would be interesting to see how Angel reacts to their reappearance. Also, it would be nice to actually make the guys responsible for Doyle's death into more of a menace than a joke.
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 17, 2004 16:05:29 GMT
What's the new Blade movie about. I've never even seen 1 or 2. I think the vampires decide to get rid of Blade (vamp hunter) by revealing him to the public and making him out to be a serial killer. I liked the first film but the second left a lot to be desired, will wait and see for the third.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 17, 2004 16:12:16 GMT
I thought of this episode on the way into work - so it's really really rough. And it would have to take place after Grace is introduced (however that happens) and before Illyria is split.
Here goes: Spike finds pieces of things around – around the office, his apartment, on the street, that are all the same and have a mystical air about them. He picks them up and brings them to the headquarters and lays them out on a table. Illyria stares at them for a long time, then morphs into Fred and assembles them into a puzzle – It turns out to look like a temple in some park. Angel, Spike and Illyria go to the temple and find the asian girl. She’s very coy about expecting them and drops hints that they have only found the first piece. She also lets them know she is in Grace’s group of allies. Angel decides to look for Grace and tries to figure out the second piece of the puzzle, which is the garden around the temple. He finds a “secret garden” gate and enters – emerges into Grace’s home. Grace isn’t surprised to see him but is concerned he came alone – he is supposed to be brothers with the other souled vampire who has the third part of the puzzle. Angel doesn’t know what she means, and she gets sad, which means Angel gets sad, and he leaves to find comfort with his “brother” Spike. Just to hang out and talk kind of comfort. Illyria in the meantime has been flitting back and forth between being Fred and being Illyria. Illyria makes the discovery that when faced with challenges that excited Fred, Fred appears and they go back and forth – no control at this point when the shell is Fred and when it’s Illyria. Angel finds Spike, who is looking for “something” and they figure out it’s the 3rd puzzle piece but they don’t know exactly what the 3rd piece is. The asian girl appears again and tells them that they can’t really search for it, but when they are ready it will come to them. They figure out the 3rd piece of the puzzle is Fred, when they go back to Illyria and find her morphing back and forth with Fred, argueing about when Fred will have the shell. It’s at this point that Angel and Spike realize they havent’ totally lost Fred.
Now you can all pick it to pieces .....
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Post by Drew on Jun 17, 2004 20:19:10 GMT
It's interesting. I'm really, really confused, but it's interesting. You might want to rewrite it for a bit more clarity.
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Post by Joss on Jun 17, 2004 20:31:40 GMT
It's interesting. I'm really, really confused, but it's interesting. You might want to rewrite it for a bit more clarity. That is what i call taking the exact words out of my mouth
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 18, 2004 11:58:53 GMT
I was thinking it would be kinda cool for Angel to have an episode or two this season just dealing with the evilness of man, he may think it is a demon or something and at that a particularly nasty demon but then when he gets down to it he sees that it is just an evil man or woman. Could be a serial killer or a husband that kills his wife for having an affair, just to show how evil is getting back into the world.
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Post by Joss on Jun 18, 2004 16:00:21 GMT
that's an interesting idea. Angel has always been dealing with demons and vampires and lawyers (hang on, aren't they the same thing?) and never with the actual seed of evil in the human spirit It could be interesting for a one shot episode.
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Everlong
Champion
Producer
Great and grand creator of Raven the series
Posts: 124
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Post by Everlong on Jun 18, 2004 19:21:28 GMT
I was thinking it would be kinda cool for Angel to have an episode or two this season just dealing with the evilness of man, he may think it is a demon or something and at that a particularly nasty demon but then when he gets down to it he sees that it is just an evil man or woman. Could be a serial killer or a husband that kills his wife for having an affair, just to show how evil is getting back into the world. Yeah I thought about this too. Not wanting to compare Angel to another show but I always considered the most interesting episodes of The X-Files were when they forgot about the paranormal and had the evilness of the human physique. Angel (and Buffy) only touched on this a couple of times. I'll put my creative hat on and maybe come up with something.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jun 18, 2004 22:53:16 GMT
Both of those episodes ideas sound good to me. The evilness of man idea should be cool once we get more specific.
I particularly liked Illyria morphing into Fred to solve the puzzle. The episode needs some kind of conflict, but the puzzle's a good backbone to build around. My main confusion is I don't understand what the riddle of the puzzle is. What does Fred have to do with Angel and Spike?
That just got me thinking....we were already discussing having Fred come back pissed off and dark, and they spent so long last season saying how Fred's soul was destroyed. What if Fred returned without her soul? I haven't begun to feel out the implications of this, but now the puzzle makes some kind of sense: Angel and Spike should not have souls, yet they do. Fred should have a soul but she doesn't. They're all irregular puzzle pieces for us to fit together.
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Post by Joss on Jun 19, 2004 1:54:42 GMT
A soul collector. Buying, trading, stealing souls. This was one of the first posts from the "Big Bad" thread. Needless to say we aren't using it. Today I was watching an old re-run of "Hush" and for some reason my thoughts immediatly went to this idea from a guest called "Jake". My idea for a fluff episode, ya know one of those episodes that have no major plot event in them. Here's the basic idea: The "Gentlepersons" (horribly bad pun, just ignore that) or random demons or something come to LA to set up shop. So then they begin to rob the inhabitants of LA of their souls. This could go two ways: A. The demons could begin to slowly rob people of their soul, one by one, and then become just a standard monster-of-the-week. or... B. We could have them do a massive one-hit spell that robs all of the souls of the people in LA except those of Spike and Angel becasue re-used souls are worth close to nothing in hell. So of course everyone starts acting comnpletly fucked-up, maybe not outright evil, but all strange, Grace, Fred, and Alan included. Dunno, just a quick idea, haven't really thought it through much. Still thinks that it has some potential. Hope to hear your ideas pronto.
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Post by Drew on Jun 19, 2004 5:18:18 GMT
Joss, I think that might work if it was just within the group - like if Angel and Spike and Illyria (does she have a soul - I don't think so...) retained their souls, but Fred, Andrew, and Alan lost theirs.
And I think Grace doesn't have a soul either. She was a Power. She has/had something greater than a soul. There's no soul to lose, no soul to gain. She just is who she is. This could be at a point before they've figured out who she is, of course. And at this point, they'd really suspect something is weird about her.
Actually, it would need to be more widespread if we're doing this chaos thing. I don't think they should do all of LA, but these demons should hit groups of people. and then the MoG get on their tail (they should have tails) and the group decides to hit them. That'd be like the second half of the episode maybe. Would have to have a better reason forwhy they don't want Angel and Spike's souls 'cause I'd think they'd be very special - being in vampires and all.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jun 19, 2004 5:29:02 GMT
They could use a mystic artifact, something of a soul-stealing grenade which only effects people nearby. Let's say it only works on humans. Angel and Spike could be skeptical of each other after they're both hit by it. "How do I know you're not just pretending you still have a soul?"
I still don't know what a soulless human is like. Do they just lose their consciense, or do they immediately turn evil?
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 19, 2004 10:59:27 GMT
As Angel and Spike's souls were restored mystically then they cannot be removed without special powers which these demons do not possess but once the demons learn of the vampire's souls they may go to great lengths to find the power they need to extract these souls as they may be worth a soul of their own once sold to some great demon down in hell...
As for people losing their souls, has it ever been mentioned before what would happend? To add to the chaos it may be better if they do just go bad... that does simplify it a bit however so may be cool if we can think of something else to add in.
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 19, 2004 11:04:30 GMT
Both of those episodes ideas sound good to me. The evilness of man idea should be cool once we get more specific. What about a serial killer who targets children, he could do something that makes Angel feel he is a demon like remove the heart or something and so Angel may feel a demon that eat children's hearts is to blame but soon sees that it is a man. He could have a medical background so he removes the heart like a surgeon. He may have been a heart surgeon but then was found to be killing his patients and so went on the run. It could have a brief cameo from Kate who is on the case as she too thinks it is down to a paranormal cause.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 19, 2004 18:27:36 GMT
Kate left town, remember? After she got fired?
I've been working on my seed of an idea - that when Illyria is faced with a human type problem she morphs into Fred - and what about the idea of the mystical tool that steals souls being several tools that when they are put together cause some major blow up?
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