|
Post by Joss on May 29, 2004 19:54:19 GMT
Okay people, every season has had a whole lotta sub-plots that deal with one huge problem (for exaple: The Beast and Jasmine, Angel having son, Angel being CEO of Hell Inc.) so we need an idea for a huge conflict here.
If you got an idea go ahead and post it here please.
|
|
|
Post by Joss on May 30, 2004 1:50:37 GMT
Okay so this was my idea:
After about ten episodes of setting and character set up Angel and Spike get a very unexpected visit. None other than The Immortal (Buffy´s unseen, aparrently evil new boyfriend who Angel and Spike have been battling for centuries, see The Girl in Question for more details) shows up in L.A. Not flunkies, not right hand man, the lean mean thing itself.
The Immortal comes and talks to Spike and Angel, as it turns out, it is not here to attack Spike and Angel, but rather to warn them. It is revealed that at first the Immortal and the two vamps were not enemies, but rather very close associates.
It is revealed that somewhere around 1867 Angelus, the Immortal, and William the Bloody fought in a bloody, underground demon war. Their adverseries were a dark and evil cult known as the... um, actually I haven´t decided on a name, will get back to that later. Point is that evenually Angelus´s side won, vanquishing this evil cult.
Only it wasn´t quite so done.
It appears that now the cult is back, and secretly operating in L.A., and engineering none other than the apocalypse. Now Angel and Co. must stop them.
Another major revelation would be that Angel was manipulated by the Senior Partners from day one. As it turns out, the Circle of the Black Thorn was an organization that had outlived it´s usefulness. When Angel killed the members of the CBT it created an imbalance, a lack of evil. Because of that The Senior Partners could act directly into this plane, unleashing their true plans.
Of course there have to be some very good sub plots. These could include flashbacks to the time of the war, seeing Angelus, William, and the Immortal fighting together and eventually becoming enemies. Also Angel, could come into conflict with The Powers that Be, as now they consider that Angel no longer saves the world since he ended world peace in season 4, the return of Buffy (and I intend to have a little twist with her that I choose to keep to myself for now) and more development on the Illyria issue.
That my idea.
But I want to hear other people´s ideas for major conflicts before I do anything important. so go ahead an post whatever you have thought of.
Hope to hear from you soon.
|
|
|
Post by Callime on May 31, 2004 8:25:07 GMT
I would like to see a conflict of Angel and Angelus. I know this was explored in one episode in season 4 but I would like it to expand even further. Possibly go something like this.
From last season we see that Angel had apparently signed the shansu prophecy away and feels that he is no longer going to able to be human. However there is away that he is able to get this back.
The prophecy states (paraphrased) that a vampire with a soul (and yes in my version its Angel not Spike, even though I thought it was an interesting twist when he did this as I saw it as meaning that Spike was always meant to be the vampire with a soul). Anyway the prophecy stated that when the vampire with a soul performed enough good deeds he would become human (or at least live) again. Now with Angel signing it away it looks as all hope is lost till we realise there is a clause in the prophecy. It states that Angel needs to defeat the ultimate evil in able to restore the prophecy and put him back on track to becoming human again.
Angel already believes he has taken on the ultimate evil and it came to a stand still (yep gotta an idea for the start of season 6 as well). However he soon realises through information gathered to him in different mystical ways that the ultimate evil is not the one where the adversary was some one else. It was the evil that was inside himself, that he could not fight when it was released, the evil that controlled him, completely and tortured him into watching and being a part of it without him being able to do a thing about it.
But how to kill that which is a part of him. Enter Spike. Spike gained a soul however is no affected by the same curse, his evil will not come back to him if he feels complete and utter happiness. Spike figures that the ones that gave him his soul might be able to help Angel. So the 2 travel to Africa to find the Sharman that helped Spike.
On arrival the Sharman states he knows why Angel is here and what Angel wants. He is able to do this however makes Angel understand that the tests he must go through will be both physically and mentally taxing.
Angel performs all manner of tasks however survives them (to Spikes disappointment, Angel does his tasks alot easier than what Spike did). The Sharman is impressed and grants Angel what he wants. After a paralysing and painstaking ritual the curse is lifted. Angel can feel joy and happiness as his soul is now permanent and he will no longer turn back into Angelus. Our 2 champions return to LA feeling they have won the day.All seems good, all seems happy.................however.
It would appear that our Sharman had invested interested in Angel loosing his curse as the only way Angel could loose his curse was away that gave our Sharman a great gift.
After our 2 hero's have gone, our Sharman returns to his humble living quarters. He is not alone. What the Sharman failed to inform our heros of is that yes he removed the curse but he didn't destroy the curse just removed what its cause or power came from............Angelus himself.
To remove the curse the Sharman had to remove the evil that the curse got its power from. It was well within our Sharmans power to remove Angelus from Angel and kill and Angelus in the process, but our Sharman wanted to keep Angelus for himself in order to use him produce evil across man kind. Now Angelus is loose, a killer beyond killers and its only time before Angel's true battle with the evil inside (now outside) him comes to a head.
From here I see Angel vs Angelus - they both have there teams they both are motivated and Angel will not be back on track to restore the shanshu prophecy till Angelus is dust.
Just my idea
|
|
|
Post by Joss on May 31, 2004 12:59:00 GMT
WOW,
In the words of Homer Simpson: Bravo (clap clap clap)
That is just plain brilliant, it could become a very, very interesting story arc. I briefly had the idea of the return of Angelus but couldn´t think of a good way to re-insert the demonic vampire into the mix. But your idea could work out extremly well.
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla on Jun 1, 2004 0:26:23 GMT
I was thinking about introducing a Grim Reaper/Death type character(I'm going to call him Howard, for lack of a better name) that may be looking for Gunn since he would be the only Human member of the group that survived 'Not Fade Away', and howard needs to finish the job. He could be just the villian of the peice for a episode of two, then be revealed that he is just a working guy, if he dosen't do his job, a member of his family will be killed to tip the scales. Angel would prevent Howard from killing Gunn, thus a family member of his would die and he would move on to his next charge. He could then move on to his next person(and possibly become a recurring character), get killed by Angel, or hang around and become a main character(sort of Spike in Buffy season 4 role). He wouldn't be able to attack any human except the person he was supposed to kill, unless he was attacked first or he would lose a family member. It would later be revealed that he is working for the PTB and it could set up a battle between Angel and the PTB.
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Jun 1, 2004 0:30:40 GMT
Gorilla, you ever see that Twilight Zone (the 2002 version) episode with Jason Alexander?
|
|
|
Post by Gorilla on Jun 1, 2004 0:34:51 GMT
Nope Joss, I can't say that I wathched it. I take it I just ripped them off without knowing it.
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Jun 1, 2004 0:46:20 GMT
No, just that your character of Death is really similar to theirs.
The basic plot for that episode is the one day while a doctor is working at the ER a wacky patient is brought in. The character claims that he is Death. The doctor and the patient get to talking and Death says that he quit, he no longer wants to kill people anymore. Of course the doctor doesn´t believe him, until the next day over 20 cities have absolutley no deaths. At first the doctor thinks its great, but then some new patients are brought in, burnt victims that have burns in over 95% of their bodies, but are still alive. So the doctor convinces Death to go back to work. So to tip the scales Death has to kill him.
Death was played brilliantly by the stocky Jason Alexander. He reflects on how much power he has, how he took out the dinasours, how he kills roses too, how nobody ever thinks about how he kills flowers.
Just a very fun character overall.
|
|
|
Post by SilverDragonwic on Jun 1, 2004 1:24:03 GMT
>>It is revealed that somewhere around 1867 Angelus, the Immortal, and William the Bloody fought in a bloody, underground demon war<<
That's not possible. Spike wasn't vamped until 1880. Any sort of one-time allies thing would be a really tight fit.
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Jun 1, 2004 1:30:40 GMT
Thanks for correcting me. So yes, it would have to be a real tight fit... I dunno
|
|
|
Post by Drew on Jun 1, 2004 1:48:50 GMT
My problem with the Immortal storyline is that thematically the Immortal is supposed to represent the guy that's always better than you or the next guy, the one she chose over you. He's almost perfect (though he does have his weaknesses), and to ever physically see him or meet him would ruin his character, I think. I know many people hated the The Girl in Question, but I thought it was done very well.
Also, regarding Shanshu, and again thematically, Angel signing it away is his way of saying that he's not seeking atonement for a reward. he's not fighting because there's a prize at the end. he's fighting because it is the right thing to do. To make another season about how he has to fight in order to achieve Shanshu would be repetitive, i think. That ship has sailed for Angel. That's my opinion. Spike looks to have it now. Or Harmony. I think she should get a soul and then accidentally save the world and become human again.
|
|
|
Post by seikenus on Jun 1, 2004 2:00:23 GMT
For Angel and the gang to survive they have to find a way to stop the attacks from Wolfram and Hart. To do this they go after the most major source they know of: the conduit. The gang finds a way into the white room to fight the conduit but are losing the battle. It turns out though that the conduit wasn't the real target, because Wolfram and Hart can always get a new one, it is the white room itself which connects all Earthly Wolfram and Hart branches and liasons to the senior partners' dimension. As the room is being destroyed and our heroes escape, the senior partners send one final desperate and risky plan through the conduit to Rome's liason.
Angel and the gang celebrate their victory with the attacks on them stopped for awhile as the offices of Wolfram and Hart try to deal with the chaos from being possibly permanently cut off from the senior partners. This reprieve allows Angel Inc. to deal with their personal issues, the aftermath of battle and a return to helping the helpless and saving souls.
Meanwhile the Roman liason has disappeared during the chaos at the office. He/She/It??? (who we will now call X for now) arrives later in England. X is heading for the Deeper Well in search of someone. The someone turns out to be Illyria's main betrayer and murderer. X gets infected with the demon essence and becomes the old one (Z). Because Z's shell had the power of the Wolf, Ram, and Hart in it's blood, Z can retain more of its power than Illyria. Z will also be able to communicate with the Wolf, Ram, and Hart in its mind. While they may unite in a common goal of destroying Angel and Illyria neither trusts the other and so tension.
This also gives Angel a fearful enemy. One who wants to rule the world and make slaves of its people and has the power and resources to do it. And has no reason to hold back or do it in secret away from the public eye.
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Jun 1, 2004 2:04:01 GMT
Okay guys, just a quick recap of the combination of all that we have so far:
Okay, so Angel slips into depression. Soon after he finds out that he must battle the ultimate evil. He defeats something but discovers that in truth it is Angelus that he must battle.
So he is lead by Spike to what I like to call "Cavey" to forever end the curse of the gypsy by separating his essence. So then "Cavey" unleashes Angelus back into the world to battle Angel and Co.
I strongly advise to read the post by Callime, it is great and has many detailed ideas that could work out quite nicely.
So, as Angelus returns another shadow from the past resurfaces. An evil cult trying to trigger the apocalypse. Also we discover that the SP had been manipulating Angel since the begining.
Near the end of it all, Buffy will return, and something, something big will happen to her.
Side Stories: 1. Gorilla´s Death act 2. Further development of the Illyria issue/possible return of Fred 3. Flashbacks to when Angelus and William the Bloody battled the cult the first time
And that is what we have so far. Due to technical problems I scratched both the Shanshu and the Immortal out of the combined conflicts.
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Jun 1, 2004 2:11:20 GMT
More stuff:
Now, W&H would probably be back and running, um, let´s say seconds, after Angel´s alley battle. They would need a CEO. How about Hamilton?
I know what yer thinking? It probably goes along the lines of "Hey, you idiot Angel killed Hamilton is Not Fade Away!"
Thing is, how could he? Hamilton had immortality, as it is clearly stated in Underneath. Perhaps Angel destoyed one form, one body, but I believe the SP could bring him back indefinetly.
Seikenus, while that is a positively brilliant idea, I think it should be pushed back towards season 7. Why? Because I think we would have to dedicate an entire season to that conflict. And Z is too strong, we would need a full strenght team Angel to take him out. Right now Angel is shaken and unstable. No way they could handle Z right now.
|
|
|
Post by talcara on Jun 1, 2004 2:50:22 GMT
i just had a quick read through so correct me if i am wrong. firstly i think we should only be thinking about what exactly happens after "not fade away" it ended with wolfram and hart throwing there minnions at team angel. How WILL ANgel and the others / humanity / everyone in the universe survive this monstrous threat. Maybe that should be the focus. i mean the show ended with such a cliffhanger we have to make sure we honour it.
just my 2 cents worth. thanks
|
|
|
Post by Drew on Jun 1, 2004 2:51:07 GMT
"If you buck the system and do your best to make it collapse, what if it does?" That was Joss's one line quote about Season 6. Thought it couldn't hurt to throw it in there.
|
|
|
Post by tyuun on Jun 1, 2004 2:54:11 GMT
I love the Angel/Angelus idea and I really think we should somehow work with that. It makes perfect sense to me that he would be the ultimate bad guy. I hate to talk about the end of the show already because we haven't even started but I think Angel should not become human. I feel he should die. I mean if you kill angel you kill angelus and vice versa however we don't know that yet. We figure this out as the season progresses. Now onto Shanshu. I always wanted Angel to get it but if we work with this idea of splitting Angel and Angelus I think in the end Spike should get it. I feel this way because I think Spike should be and can be the only one with the power to take down Angelus and in return he is granted life. Needs fleshing out but doens't sound to bad.
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Jun 1, 2004 2:57:21 GMT
All right guys, I know a lot of you will send people to kill me for even thinking about this for more than two seconds but....
What if the shanshu was... fake? What if it was kind of like "The Father Will Kill the Son?"
|
|
|
Post by Drew on Jun 1, 2004 3:01:34 GMT
I think the best thing to do first would be to establish a theme for the season rather than just throwing a bunch of storylines together.
Hmmm. . .I'll have to think about it for awhile.
I have a suspicion that the Angel/Angelus thing is verging a bit too close to repetition.
|
|
|
Post by tyuun on Jun 1, 2004 3:07:16 GMT
Yeah the Shanshu could be fake I like that. I remember something being said on Angel or maybe Buffy that those scrolls can be translated at thousand ways and are sometimes not what you thought they were at all. So yeah it could be fake maybe Sahjahn planted it to get Angels hopes up I don't now. It would be cool if it was fake I mean nobody NEEDS to become human.
|
|