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Post by littlewhiterabbit on Jun 1, 2004 7:19:47 GMT
But if Illyria just starts adopting Fred's mannerisms and such, then that's just blue Fred. I only suggest splitting them because that was Joss' original plan, and it resurrects Fred without actually resurrecting her. Hence, nobody comes back from the dead.
And why would we split Angel and Angelus? Half of Angel's appeal is the conflict between his souled side and his demon side, and if we end up truly splitting them, then the result would probably be more similar to vamp Angel in Pylea.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 1, 2004 8:48:52 GMT
Just want to pop back in and voice my opinion on something: Slayers. I don't think we need them in this season. Why? Because its played and we're allowing ourselves to fall back on established conventions that would be predictable. This is an ambitious fan-fic project, we should treat it as such and do what Mutant Enemy would do: the unexpected. So I vote a very hard "no" on adding a slayer to the group. Although, a cameo appearance by Faith for an ep or 2 would be very cool.
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dano
Vampire
Posts: 8
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Post by dano on Jun 1, 2004 21:21:29 GMT
Well, just a newbie here, throwing in my two cents' worth.
So we've got three slots, right? 2 new/1 old, or 2 old/1 new, according to Mr. Whedon? So.
I have to admit that I like Nina, and she's make a nice hook for bringing Oz back (who I also liked). I'm not sure, though, that Oz really fits in with the darker, more morally ambiguous tone that "Angel" has (as opposed to "Buffy"). Also, I'm not entirely sure I can see Nina as a regular member of the team....aside from turning all furry and mean once a month, what else does she really bring to the table? She's an art student, for chissake. So. I'd probably keep Nina as a recurring guest, like she was this past season.
Splitting Illyria and Fred is an interesting concept, as might be bringing Fred back somehow. And I think we could have some interesting wiggle-room there, even if the evil W&H doctor wasn't lying and her soul has been annihilated. Because, it seems to me, in the Buffyverse, losing one's soul (or having it destroyed) does NOT mean being dead....so what happens if Fred comes back as Fred, but soulless? What would that look like? It could be, well, disturbing. It could also be kind of cool.
But anyway. Thinking back to all the Buffy characters who might cross over, Faith is the only one who really makes sense to me....she's enough of a badass to have something to contribute, and unlike a lot of the Sunnydale characters, she doesn't mind getting her hands dirty. Well, her or Principal Wood. I really like Principal Wood, too....and now that I think about it, it might be interesting to see how he and Gunn would interact. So maybe Wood instead of Faith (especially if Tru Calling continues). Hmm.
As for the other new members, I'm intrigued by something someone posted earlier in this thread, inquiring as to where exactly Lindsey learned all the stuff he did about the Senior Partners? I'm imagining someone who's got some serious mojo, but who for whatever reason doesn't use it actively. Could be a player, but isn't. Sort of terminally shy and/or reclusive, but who has mastered scrying magic to such an extent that he/she can (and does) watch and eavesdrop on just about anything going on anywhere. No real friends or companions, just a passive listener and recorder of the magical buzz of the world. It's easy to see how someone like Lindsey could have gotten to someone like that (provided that he could find them, but let's just gloss over that and assume that he did somehow). Lindsey shows up, hangs out with the guy, drinks beer and gets stoned with him, isn't at all weirded out by all the weird witchy stuff the guy is into, pumps him for information at the same time. You could have an interesting arc of character development, too, after Angel & Co. find him, of his beginning to engage with the world and also perhaps to eventually break out of his observer role and start bringing his heavy mojo into play on the side of the good guys. And while I say "he", it could be a "she".....only reason I lean in the direction of a male character is that if it's a woman, it might be a little too much like Fred when she was initially sprung from her cave.
So. The third character. Let's take Mr. Whedon's suggestion for a "seemingly harmless [person with] a very, very dark past." I'm thinking for some reason of the Fell Brethren, and their raising of children for eventual sacrifice. Granted, they looked all cute and cuddly cooing over the baby in the last few episodes of Season 5, but if they were part of the Circle of the Black Thorn, then they must be pretty bad folks. So imagine a girl raised by them, who 'round about her thirteenth birthday (or whenever the sacrifice is supposed to take place) wises up and, presumably having been fattened up by some kind of Brethen mojo, decides that she doesn't want to be ritually killed and instead kicks some ass and escapes. She kills some of them, kills her parents (who made the deal in the first place), and goes on the run, a teenage runaway/demon hunter sort of thing. She'd have to be very tough to survive, and her instincts would be almost feral--raised by demons, and then living under freeway overpasses and so forth and having to fend for herself in the face of both human and demon evil and violence. She'd have motivation, and something to bring to the table, and her story would be just the sort of thing that would tweak Angel's hero impulses.
So those are my thoughts. Cheers!
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Post by Joss on Jun 1, 2004 23:04:48 GMT
Okay, hi Dano!
First off, thrilled that you enjoyed my idea of the unassuming man with the dark past.
But... the character you created IMO practically screams Dana from Damage. you know, someone who was abussed, then escaped, has almost feral instincts.
But thanks for posting your ideas here. Appreciate it.
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Post by Joss on Jun 2, 2004 1:16:19 GMT
Hey guys, we need to start thinking who will be the next transition actor from Firefly who will be playing a villain on Angel.
j/k
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Post by Drew on Jun 2, 2004 1:57:11 GMT
Alan Tudyk
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Post by theinsanetest on Jun 2, 2004 2:38:52 GMT
ok everyone plz don't kik my anal region 4 this but, what if something happened with the black thorn somehow and we had cordelia back somehow now u may diss me it was only a suggestion
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Post by littlewhiterabbit on Jun 2, 2004 6:13:29 GMT
Heh. I think Morena Baccarin would be cool evil.
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Callsime not callime
Guest
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Post by Callsime not callime on Jun 2, 2004 6:20:25 GMT
Sorry in my original post the name should have been callsime not callime. I know....not an important point. Just skim read the characters section. Did anyone mention anything about bringing Andrew back for a guest role?
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Post by WilliamtheBloody on Jun 2, 2004 11:53:21 GMT
I think andrew would be great to show up every now and then, now that he's a "professional." Andrew knows alot now so I think that'd work out.
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Post by befound on Jun 2, 2004 13:37:00 GMT
I like the idea of conor coming back but i agree some new female characters are needed, a female watcher sounds alright but i would prefer a kind of character we havent seen before not just a female version of wes or giles.
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Post by Angelus on Jun 2, 2004 16:39:30 GMT
Faith has to come back, we need to keep the Dark aspect of the show going. I'm hoping to see Willow and her bitch Kennedy added to the cast. Willow is very intelligent, she has knowledge of Demons and witchcraft. While Kennedy is a tough slayer, they would both be great assests to Angel & Co. But if we're looking for a Watcher replacement, Andrew is the only choice, and he has that 'special relationship' with Spike.
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Post by Drew on Jun 3, 2004 3:42:21 GMT
I was thinking about what kind of person we've never had on the show. We've had young woman, young men, strong warriors with/without dark pasts, we've had Watchers. . . I'd like to see an older female character. Someone strong that can speak matter of factly. Imagine Meryl Streep. Strong but she can break. She has flaws. I'll have to think about how she'd fit into the show.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 3, 2004 4:09:52 GMT
Okay, I know the comment started as a joke, but maybe its not crazy to bring in Alan Tudyk as a "big bad" later in the season. I mean, we've never had a "goony" big-bad here before. Plus, he could bring some much needed levity to the surrounding chaos that is our characters this season. I'm thinking the traditonal mad scientist in personality, not profession. This could be fun. Darkest season yet, with a goon for a villain, and Wash could do it great. If we do end up creating a whole new character to be an actual cast member, I say leave their introduction toward the end of the season as was the original patter (Gunn, Fred, Connor). I also want to make a very strong NO against adding anybody from Buffy to main cast. A guest role or 2 is OK, but lets not make this a geeky fanboy wet-dream gone wrong. lol.
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Post by Joss on Jun 3, 2004 4:17:47 GMT
It may sound opposite to it, but I am actually supportive of Alan Tudyk. Just to clear it up before I start the post.
LOL! Man this is priceless.
It takes me about two seconds to laugh when I imagine what Alan Tudyk would do as a villian. Just picture that wacky pilot from Serenity, with his blonde hair and delaring himself as a "large, semi-muscular man", and then going all vamp face and bitting someone. Lol, quite funny. Like Angelus, but with a wacky sense of humor instead of a sadistical.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 3, 2004 4:25:10 GMT
oh yeah! If handled right, I can really get behind this. ;D
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Post by LizaP on Jun 3, 2004 6:11:57 GMT
I gotta admit I like the idea of the older woman, Meryl Streep like character. An older person would have history that none of the existing characters would know about and could find out as the series progresses. I like the idea of someone from another dimension or another time who's thrown to Angel at the battle during the finale who can keep them from being killed - and then maybe pops in every now and then (like Gunn did in season 2) to help but since it's not her home dimension she's still trying to figure it all out - but in a good way. Not another Illyria but a time-traveling watcher or something like that.
I think that new characters would work better than some with a history already in place - you want new ideas then you have to have new characters to implement them. I know this season 6 is not going to be a Monster Of The Week series if we can help it and I think that requires new mysterious characters.
Sorry for the rambling and run on sentences ...
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Post by Doyle on Jun 3, 2004 6:30:19 GMT
No worries, ramblings and run ons are quite the norm here. lol. Yeah, the more I think about it, I really like adding an older woman to the cast. I'm thinking that she would be strong, powerful, and maybe the PTB's replacement champion after Angel is offically booted out of the role and quite bitter about it too. The PTB angle would be what initially keeps her out of the group and create hostility between her and Angels crew. I think we should introduce her as a cross between Lorne and Gunn in that her first appearances are quite minor and the alliances are uneasy, but she is eventually brought into the fold. Personality wise, I'd like her to be a "know-it-all" who has the power to back it up and frequently puts our heroes in their place. I think "character you love to hate" describes what I'd like out of her. I think time travel and/or another dimension is likely played out. Maybe a sorceress or something? EDIT: for clarification.
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Post by Drew on Jun 3, 2004 9:14:36 GMT
It was a joke, but I'm also totally behind the Alan Tudyk villain thing. It would be very different. Obviously, let's wait and see what our season shapes up to be before we make a complete decision, but it's an idea to keep in our pocket. As for the older woman, I was thinking she'd be a character that didn't have to "fight" to fight. She'd win her battles without lifting a finger. I don't know how that would work - and it might not - just the way I was thinking about it. Doyle, so if there's a new character that is around a lot, would they then just officially join Angel's team toward the end? is that what you mean? Oh, I was going to say that I think it's a problem that the opening credits (I mean, if they actually existed now) only have three characters, but then I realized that all of season one had only three. So that's okay. I'm with you on this. Well, actually, I think we might have to add a human pretty soon - although, if Fred splits, that will take care of that.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 3, 2004 9:31:28 GMT
Drew,
Yep, end of season is what I was thinking exactly, but around a bit longer, not unlike Lorne in S2. But not drag out making her a regular for 2 dang seasons. lol.
I'm not sure about the woman being a manipulative non-hands on type character though. I think Angel wouldnt tolerate it as I'm assuming you mean she is highly intelligent (thats okay) and manipulative (not so okay) and Angel is quite through playing games. He would have none of that.
Your dead on with what I was thinking in that by having Fred back it would take care of the human "slot" we have open...even if she does come back a little weird.
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