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Post by Joss on Jun 4, 2004 2:00:19 GMT
Okay guys, now I was going over the whole Basic Story thread and I was not able to find a clear story that everyone was agreeing on. And when trying to combine them I realized that we were missing something, some sort of a catalizer to link all of our ideas together. Then I realized, now that we've established the theme, what we need essentially is a Big Bad. It is hard to shape a story and then insert a big bad into it. It's much easier to create a big bad and then combine our ideas to form a story around him.
So I opened this thread to post our ideas of what the Big Nasty Thing of S6 could be. Remember, since this is the last piece of Angel we don't have to worry about how we're going to top this guy off next season. We can go complelty crazy here.
Now, Doyle and me were at first playing, and then seriously considering, with a character of a Big Bad played by Alan Tudyk (another Firefly actor put on Angel to play a villian) but we never really got into what the hell the character would be.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 4, 2004 2:17:20 GMT
Just a side note here, but it was Drew who brought up Alan Tudyk's name in the first place, I just supported it. I'm thinking definitely over the top in personality, but careful not to go where Buffy already has with the Mayor and Geek Trio. It's got to be very different. I really like the idea of going with a heavy season and having a somewhat corny villain for the "big bad".
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Post by Joss on Jun 4, 2004 2:19:37 GMT
Or right, sorry about that. Thanks for suggesting it in the first place Drew.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 4, 2004 2:37:52 GMT
How about a big bad that has absolutely NO physical dexterity so is a lousy fighter - but has the ability to call up fighters for him? What I'm thinking here is a dorky kind of guy (gotta be a man) who walks into walls and stuff - maybe because he likes to try out different bodies and can never quite get his coordination going in any new body - he's difficult to recognize all the time except for some trait or thing he wears - and each body he tries gives him some of the power it had before.
If this is plagarized from an old Twilight Zone, tell me now before I get carried away thinking of Peter Sellers in a demon suit.
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Post by Joss on Jun 4, 2004 2:54:29 GMT
Hmm Liza, for some reason the idea of a villian who can't fight but can do spells and summon things to fight for him reminds me of the trio back in S6 of BTVS.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 4, 2004 2:59:12 GMT
yeah, and if we're really going with Alan Tudyk were already walking a thin line there.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jun 4, 2004 3:03:27 GMT
Not criticizing anyone's ideas, 'cause I'm still reading them all, but we don't need a Big Bad necessarily. That's a Buffy concept. I always though Angel worked best in smaller arcs that fit the series's overall theme, instead of season-long arcs based around one villian.
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Post by Joss on Jun 4, 2004 3:06:40 GMT
While that is true, in the end there was always someone who caused all of the trouble, ultimatley it all summed up to one single character.
Example: The Beast Hamilton&The Circle of the Black Thorn Jasmine Holtz
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Post by Doyle on Jun 4, 2004 3:10:43 GMT
You are correct. We don't necessarily need a big bad, but for whats happening with the characters this season, I think it might be good to have one around to help move elements of the season along. Although I'm under the impression its a fairly popular idea, it's definitely up for debate as nothing has been set in stone.
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Post by Joss on Jun 4, 2004 3:14:29 GMT
"Set in Stone"
A little fun anecdote regarding that phrase:
When the real Joss Whedon was creating Angel he wanted the WB execs to have the show on Tuesday at 9:00. The execs were pretty much against it, so Joss kept pestering them. Finally one of the execs told him, "Relax! Nothing is set in stone yet!"
The following morning that exec found a package for him from Whedon. Inside was a rock that had "Angel-Tuesday-9:00" carved into it.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jun 4, 2004 3:24:05 GMT
That's hilarious! I plan to use that idea the first chance I get.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 4, 2004 3:25:27 GMT
HAHAHAHAHA ;D
I'd never heard about that one! lol
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Post by Gorilla on Jun 4, 2004 5:11:32 GMT
I had been watching S2 of Buffy and i wondered how fucked up Drusilla would of become if spike had died in "what's my line?"? So we could bring in some sort of tandom villians then kill one of them off somewhere around the half way or 3 quarters mark, and then have the MoG, deal with the fallout of the widower.
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Post by Drew on Jun 4, 2004 5:26:13 GMT
I think Alan Tudyk, if we went with him should be some kind of demon, as in, he would not have a human face. all the other firefly actors have looked human - well not Gina when her maggots got feisty, but still.
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Post by bisquick on Jun 4, 2004 5:29:44 GMT
IMO- I dont think you need to decide who the big bad will be from the beginning. as long as you have an idea of how youd want the show to play out. dont rush it. maybe wait a few eps and see what kinda themes and arcs and cnflicts are shaping up.
but aside from that. why do U need a big bad ? Perhaps they could be the big bad themselves. Where do they go from here ? they have to pick up the pieces, whatever pieces are left that is.
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Post by Drew on Jun 4, 2004 5:40:52 GMT
We definitely do need a story before a big bad. Otherwise, it will ring false.
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Post by Jake on Jun 4, 2004 7:51:47 GMT
A soul collector. Buying, trading, stealing souls. I imagine Angel or Spike's soul would be worth a lot on the black market, or in someone's (something's) private collection. A slayers soul also. I wouldn't mind Spike losing his soul for a few episodes. He hasn't been dangerously evil for a few year.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 4, 2004 9:01:38 GMT
A soul collector. Buying, trading, stealing souls. I imagine Angel or Spike's soul would be worth a lot on the black market, or in someone's (something's) private collection. A slayers soul also. I wouldn't mind Spike losing his soul for a few episodes. He hasn't been dangerously evil for a few year. I like this, I don't know if necessarily for the big bad, but I'd give it a very strong "maybe"at the very least. Perhaps this would be a good oppourtunity to explore the difference in Angel and Spikes "souls". Angel was cursed with his, but Spike fought for it...which goes against everything we know about vamps. Is spike a demon with a soul, or was Williams soul simply returned to him with the demon dormant like Angel? We could definitely use this to tackle these questions. For this to be the big bad, we'd have to work it into the theme of the season which may or may not be too hard. Thoughts?
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Post by Joss on Jun 4, 2004 12:51:18 GMT
I also like it.
I was thinking about Spike's soul that other day. He did get to be good while still technically being a demon. But then I realized something. He was still evil. All thatg had him not attacking the good guys was his obbseion with Buffy and that bloody chip in his head. If the cave shaman had taken the thing out of him he probably would have gone right back to being evil.
I think that Spike's real changes, where he definetly crossed the line to the good side in S7, when he had a soul... so he could definetly go back to being evil if he loses his soul.
Now, what I'd like to know is: What does this soul collector person do with all of the souls. Does he keep them in jars in his bedroom cause he likes the decor?
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Post by jibberish on Jun 4, 2004 14:42:19 GMT
i hope the alan tudyk suggestion isn't based in the assumption that the character would be like Wash. the point of the firefly crossovers was to show the actors doing something different. so ron glass would be more interesting to me as a bafoon than alan tudyk. i could see alan tudyk as a sadistic murderer though, or maybe jewel staite as a vampire, or something like that.
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