Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jun 9, 2004 5:09:24 GMT
The idea of Angel and Co. starting a "good apocalypse" is mentioned in a lot of different threads, so I thought it deserved a place for discussion. I'm very confused about what a good apocalypse is supposed to mean. Can anyone explain it? Why is it needed and how is it done?
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PuppetCancer
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I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 9, 2004 6:24:48 GMT
I think it has to do with them taking out The Black Thorn and tipping the scale(at least in LA?)
But I dunno about the apocalypse thing. I dont think thered be such a thing as a "good" one
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Post by Jaxxson on Jun 9, 2004 7:11:16 GMT
I think it has to do with them taking out The Black Thorn and tipping the scale(at least in LA?) But I dunno about the apocalypse thing. I dont think thered be such a thing as a "good" one well from what i've seen on angel and buffy an apocalypse is just a way to throw the world at of balance so i'am guessing a good apocalypse is when the good people throw the world out of balance for good thats just my guess so i could (and most likly) be wrong
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Post by Drew on Jun 9, 2004 8:48:43 GMT
Okay. I originally proposed the Good Apocalypse idea. See, the word Apocalypse doesn't mean destruction and such. What it means is "revelation" and "unveiling". Words like that. Those words don't seem to have any kind of negative connotations to them. So really an apocolypse could mean just an unveiling of some kind of truth - a beautiful, good truth, even. It could mean a whole new kind of world is established. I don't know exactly. I just like that it flips the whole apocalypse stereotype on its head. Really surprises people. And I think a good penultimate episode ending line would be: Angel: Tomorrow night. . .we're starting an apocalypse.
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chris
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Post by chris on Jun 10, 2004 13:44:05 GMT
Was just thinking, you know how in season 5 Lindsey was saying the apocalypse had been set in motion in everyone and in the world around them and W&H were the ones doing it (kind of) this season what if Angel reversed all this and he caused the apocalypse to be set in motion that instead of having an almighty power such as W&H and TPTB taking control, it is up to us? He starts a good apocalypse that means that we (meaning man) have a chance that when the end comes we will have won the fight and we have caused good to take control not just the champions... make of this what you will... but it is kind of like the empowerment of man and not sitting back and let the fight go on around us...
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Post by Drew on Jun 10, 2004 21:20:55 GMT
That's good thinking, Chris. We've definitely been having a lot of posts that seem to be moving us in a direction very similar to that. Some stuff we've talked about is TPTB going against Angel because they don't like the way he is balancing things. Basically, it's their way or the highway, but Angel's going show 'em what for.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jun 11, 2004 0:19:25 GMT
Was just thinking, you know how in season 5 Lindsey was saying the apocalypse had been set in motion in everyone and in the world around them and W&H were the ones doing it (kind of) this season what if Angel reversed all this and he caused the apocalypse to be set in motion that instead of having an almighty power such as W&H and TPTB taking control, it is up to us? He starts a good apocalypse that means that we (meaning man) have a chance that when the end comes we will have won the fight and we have caused good to take control not just the champions... make of this what you will... but it is kind of like the empowerment of man and not sitting back and let the fight go on around us... I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but reading your post made me think that their goal should be to establish strong human leaders who will work to make everything better in the long term. They tore down the old system controlled by evil to fight the Bad Apocalypse, so they should set up a new system controlled by good to start a Good Apocalypse.
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Post by Jaxxson on Jun 11, 2004 0:34:21 GMT
That's good thinking, Chris. We've definitely been having a lot of posts that seem to be moving us in a direction very similar to that. Some stuff we've talked about is TPTB going against Angel because they don't like the way he is balancing things. Basically, it's their way or the highway, but Angel's going show 'em what for. I like the idea of have TPTB going agansit angel and co we could have it that the TPTB and W&H after angel and making matters worst and upseting the balance more
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Post by Drew on Jun 11, 2004 4:02:45 GMT
I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but reading your post made me think that their goal should be to establish strong human leaders who will work to make everything better in the long term. They tore down the old system controlled by evil to fight the Bad Apocalypse, so they should set up a new system controlled by good to start a Good Apocalypse. That's kind of what I've been thinking, although (and I don't know exactly how you imagine this) setting up human leaders definitely should not turn out to be something like some sort of Star Wars boring council or anything. But we should explore that. What I was thinking was that somehow this good apocalypse would show that everyone controls their own fate or something like that - just minus the cheese.
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PuppetCancer
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I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 11, 2004 6:32:45 GMT
I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but reading your post made me think that their goal should be to establish strong human leaders who will work to make everything better in the long term. They tore down the old system controlled by evil to fight the Bad Apocalypse, so they should set up a new system controlled by good to start a Good Apocalypse. damn, there really needs to be a staff so all these ideas arent just out there. some good ones, though. im thinking one of these "leaders" could be Conelly(unsure if thats his name), the man that was running for Mayor. the one Angel helped trick into thinking he was a pedophile. Another consequence of them taking the deal. Wed now hafta see them fix that whole situation PuppetCancer out
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Post by LizaP on Jun 11, 2004 7:05:57 GMT
What Drew said about the good apocalypse is consistent with canon - primarily that Angel plays a big role in it but no one knows which side he's on - well if you can't easily identify the sides, all those prophecies come true.
A good apocalypse is also kind of a revelation. At least from the little biblical stuff I remember.
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chris
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Post by chris on Jun 11, 2004 9:14:56 GMT
I don't know if this is what you had in mind, but reading your post made me think that their goal should be to establish strong human leaders who will work to make everything better in the long term. They tore down the old system controlled by evil to fight the Bad Apocalypse, so they should set up a new system controlled by good to start a Good Apocalypse. Yeah thats the sort of thing I meant! It time for man to take control of their own fate, we've always had something supernatural to do it for us; a slayer, a vampire with a soul etc so maybe now it is time for us to do something about it rather than sit around and watch. I agree it should not be like star wars at all but maybe more like lord of the rings when they decide on a fellowship. The new powers should not be powers at all rather people living on earth, after all they will be effected by the fate of earth more than any god as they live there!!!
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Post by Jaxxson on Jun 11, 2004 11:26:19 GMT
Iam not sure I get it do you mean kick ever deman out of this demantion because if we do that then well be shuting down the Jossverse
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chris
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Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 11, 2004 11:32:46 GMT
Iam not sure I get it do you mean kick ever deman out of this demantion because if we do that then well be shuting down the Jossverse I don't think anyone would want that, I think it would be cool if humans were empowered a bit more. Give them a bit more to do against the demons, sort of set up the fight to finally wipe out all evil (in the far far future though)
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Post by Drew on Jun 12, 2004 6:49:24 GMT
sort of set up the fight to finally wipe out all evil (in the far far future though) I think we need to remember one thing though, when approaching this Good Apocalypse: Evil will NEVER be wiped out. I mean, we should NEVER give the impression that the fight will ever end. Because that's the main theme of the show. I do, however, agree about the empowering humans more thing.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 12, 2004 7:00:04 GMT
Maybe not only empowering humans but opening their eyes too - that was one of the key parts of Angel is recognizing the demons out there that are not part of the daylight world - and spreading the information. Like with Kate Locksley and Nina - they learned what's out there. Maybe there is a way to get the message a wider audience. Just thinking while I type here, nothing personal if you all think the idea is lame.
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Post by Drew on Jun 12, 2004 7:04:48 GMT
That's kind of interesting, Liza. On Buffy and Angel, people are always choose to ignore the demons around them. We could open their eyes to it. Not sure how well it will work, but definitely worth thinking about.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 12, 2004 7:14:21 GMT
Maybe there is a way to tie recognizing the demons with the chaos.
On second thought, though, Jossverse usually (well, almost always) had the demons as metaphor. And how do you describe a chaos using metaphor.
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Post by Doyle on Jun 12, 2004 7:32:30 GMT
That's kind of interesting, Liza. On Buffy and Angel, people are always choose to ignore the demons around them. We could open their eyes to it. Not sure how well it will work, but definitely worth thinking about. That works really well. What better grand revelation than forcing people to accept that there are demons among them?
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Post by Drew on Jun 12, 2004 7:38:20 GMT
And how do you describe a chaos using metaphor. If this board had a smiley with its brain exploding....I would use that smiley. I think Chris suggested something like this about the demon causing the chaos. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the idea - I could be, but I'd have to think about it more.
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