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Post by LizaP on Aug 13, 2004 4:52:29 GMT
Maybe this is the wrong place to put this idea, but given that WR&H must return, how about them being in the process of rebuilding, and Grace (whose quickly becoming my favorite character) decides that they can't get too powerful because as good as Angel & his soul are to right the balance, if WR&H got too big they would upset the balance again. I think instead of making them a law firm, they should be a big company like Bechtel or Halliburton (and don't tell me those two firms didn't have some demonic help) and in order to muzzle the evil, they have contracts to do good stuff. So they are not entirely emasculated, but they have a lot more good in them.
So, when the Circle of the Black Thorn was destroyed, the Senior Partners decided another law firm was too risky. We find this out from Tobit's conversations with the PTB.
Feel free to rip the idea, but I want the evil law firm to take on a more contemporary veil of evil.
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Post by Drew on Aug 13, 2004 17:15:58 GMT
Hmm. That's kind of interesting. I wish I had something to add. When I think about our season, i get a little afraid that we might not be able to fit W&H into it because we're already pretty full with content. But we should leave this open as an option. And hey, you're a Senior Partner. You have four stars. Cool!
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Post by Doyle on Aug 18, 2004 6:06:07 GMT
Hmm. That's kind of interesting. I wish I had something to add. When I think about our season, i get a little afraid that we might not be able to fit W&H into it because we're already pretty full with content. But we should leave this open as an option. And hey, you're a Senior Partner. You have four stars. Cool! I completely agree with Drew on this, it would be really hard to work them in this season. If we did, I would be all for the 3 guys and an incompetent intern idea - thats just funny.
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Post by ThePowersThatBe on Aug 20, 2004 0:52:32 GMT
How's this for an idea: it's been well established that Wolfram & Hart have holdings in every dimension of existence. What with all the demon hunting and whatnot by Angel & Co., plus numerous others in this dimension, one of the W & H's divisions suddenly finds itself with a greatly reduced clientele. Rather than rebuild their holdings in this dimension, the other division shifts over some of its personnel to commute to this one. The commuters aren't terribly thrilled to be here, but traditionally the alternate would be termination. Literally.
In this way, it would be possible to have W & H as minor players: they only approach the job half-heartedly, and could easily be dealt with in 2 or 3 eps.
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Post by LizaP on Aug 20, 2004 2:16:55 GMT
I dunno - do we really want to get rid of them so easily?
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Post by Doyle on Aug 20, 2004 2:30:38 GMT
I dunno - do we really want to get rid of them so easily? Well, if we brought them in this season (and that's a collosal "if" there) it would have to be in an extremely minimal capacity. When you stop and take stock of all we have happening this season, I think you'll agree that a return of W&H would just get lost in the shuffle, and really, they deserve better don't they? I think I'm going to go on record as being officially against the return of W&H in S6.
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Post by LizaP on Aug 20, 2004 3:40:22 GMT
I'm cool with it - but you better explain somehow how Angel got out of his contract with them.
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Post by Doyle on Aug 20, 2004 3:44:05 GMT
I'm cool with it - but you better explain somehow how Angel got out of his contract with them. uhm.....the business went under leaving pre-existing contracts null and void?
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Post by Drew on Aug 20, 2004 3:47:41 GMT
I'm pretty sure he broke the contract when he destroyed them.
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Post by Joss on Aug 20, 2004 4:46:27 GMT
I'm 100% behind Doyle on this one, I'd rather go agains't the return of W & H this season
Well, I think that W & H probably shredded the Angel contracts, what with all of the attempted assasinations and all.
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Post by LizaP on Aug 20, 2004 4:50:12 GMT
That still doesn't fully explain why the Senior Partners were willing to let Angel off the hook - it's been stressed that contracts with them go on past death.
If you want to void the contract I think Grace should have some small part in that.
Even with the firm actually out of the way, I think we should deal with some of the crap they left behind - no firm just shuts its doors and calls it quits, there are always loose ends hanging about.
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Post by Doyle on Aug 20, 2004 5:04:05 GMT
That still doesn't fully explain why the Senior Partners were willing to let Angel off the hook - it's been stressed that contracts with them go on past death. I wouldn't say the senior partners let Angel off the hook. Their link to this world was pretty much severed, so there is little they can really do about Angel now. I doubt they have the kind of "firepower" necessary in this world to deal with him. The fact that the PTB are now pretty much in charge would only complicate the issue for them. I doubt that would work as she is an unconnected third party. I'd say the contracts should either be considered void or "on hold" until W&H get up and running again. Well, one W&H loose end will be appearing in the form of Eve later in the season. Does that count?
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Post by ThePowersThatBe on Aug 20, 2004 5:17:31 GMT
As to letting Angel out of his contract, I believe I brought this up a while back (though I can't for the life of me remember in what thread).
If you pay close attention throughout the season, they show Angel's signature on two contracts, one giving him control of the firm, the other signing away Shanshu, and the handwriting is not the same.
So, the question becomes, which signature did he fake? And for that matter, can he legally sign as "Angel?" For all intents and purposes, Liam is his human name and Angelus is his vampire name... Angel is an assumed alias, and could (theoretically) be invalid as a legal signature. Wouldn't be too hard to justify a forgery as a means of voiding the contracts.
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Post by Inyan on Aug 20, 2004 9:28:53 GMT
I dont thinkt the name is important at all, its all in the blood.
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Post by MrSenator on Sept 6, 2004 20:19:43 GMT
Here's an idea - this is more for if you'll be continuing into a season 7, as I can see that season 6 looks full. Plus I really like the idea of the PTBs as the big bad, and throwing the traditional evil in there in any capacity could diminish what you're attempting to do. Someone pointed out that Wolfram and Hart was always so perfect, and I agree - perfectly run, perfectly operated. Smug, content with themselves - always in control. And now? They have suffered a major setback. The entities making the wheels turn on earth are gone. So what happens? Do they rebuild the same way? Do they build another major office in LA under the same impression that they are in control, everything's running smoothly, the apocalypse is underway and inevitable, as they did after the Beast? I dont think so. And there is a major difference between what Angel did vs what the Beast did. Angel killed the real powers W&H had on earth, the Beast just wiped out a major office. So what happens? I would think they're somewhat desparate, and feel the need to take more risks. I think they would be the ones forced into making power plays like Angel did. They suffered this setback, and now they need to make up for lost time. They're not as patient, they're not as calm and collected. And I think this would make them much more dangerous. They have been placed in a position where they need to throw their weight around (so to speak) in order to regain their position on earth. Whether this means reestablishing a law office under the same guise of control and patience, while secretly making much larger plans, or establishing themselves eslewhere - business, government, religion, etc., I dont know. But I thought I should toss this out there. To me, W&H is the archvillain on this show, and I would hate to see it end (officially or unofficially in a continuation like this) without a showdown. W&H is not about to sit on its hands. Not to completely dismiss the idea of W&H having a small, three person practice altogether, as it would be very funny, but that is not W&H's style. Even if they would only be trying to throw people (read: Angel) off. They've just taken a massive hit. How do you think they would react?
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Post by LizaP on Sept 7, 2004 17:14:31 GMT
I think they would come back fighting dirty.
And I have always thought that W&H needs to be discussed even if they are never shown.
And we need to figure out how Angel was able to break his contract.
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Post by Joss on Sept 7, 2004 22:29:57 GMT
Well, I'm going to go with something Doyle said a while ago on this mattter. The contracts don't go void, they don't break, Angel is still technically "owned" by W&H. The thing is that due to Angel's actions W&H no longer has enough influence upon this world to make use of these contracts. They no longer have the firepower needed to attack Angel. The contracts will no doubt come to haunt and hunt Angel at one point in his future, but as long as the PTB have supreme power then W&H is pretty much too powerless to really do something.
I like your idea MrSenator, but like you yourself said this is a pretty huge conflict that I doubt we can just cram into this season.
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Post by LizaP on Sept 9, 2004 3:35:55 GMT
OK - I can buy that W&H are in no position to enforce the contracts. Can we say that somewhere in some episode?
Oh and thanks Joss - as you can see I'm finally in.
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Post by Joss on Sept 9, 2004 3:38:25 GMT
Can we say that somewhere in some episode? Sure, I think that I can find a way of fitting that in somewhere in episode 4.
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Post by Drew on Sept 13, 2004 17:16:18 GMT
Just a random idea:
In some ep, Angel has to go to an old, huge W&H warehouse (think end of "Raiders of the Lost Ark") where they kept artifacts that they deemed fairly useless. They are there searching for something, obviously. And maybe they discover that something has escaped from one of the boxes.
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