|
|
Post by Joss on Sept 10, 2004 2:54:25 GMT
Okay, I think that now is a good time to begin discussing any ideas that anyone might have for this episode.
Okay, for those that were not there when we first discussed this episode here's the basic summary of all that we have so far on this episode: A group of demons come to LA and begin to steal the souls of humans, stealing souls of groups of people at a time. Angel and his team begin to investigate the case but fall into the trap of the demons. Andrew, Fred, and Tobit all lose their souls. Illyria will not lose it as she being one of the true demons she has no soul to lose, she transcends that concept. The same goes for Grace, except replace the word demon with Power.
As for Angel and Spike, I will come up with reasons for them not to lose their souls later on. But the entire twist of the episode is how whenever anyone mentions the words "soul" and "stealer" in the same sentence everyone expects those two to lose their souls. Instead this time they will be the ones that get to keep their souls but watch as their close friends lose them.
Now, normally any human who loses their soul would immediatly drop dead. But because of the ever-so-wonderful chaos that's flowing around the air humans will become more and more like demons and therefor will be able to stay alive. But still something should happen to them, they should act weird somehow, but I dunno how. If you have any ideas on this subject please post them here.
Oh, by the way. This idea for this episode is by yours trully. I also intend to write this episode. (I like to brag ;D)
Main Entry: 1soul
Pronunciation: 'sOl
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English soule, from Old English sAwol; akin to Old High German sEula soul
1 : the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2 a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe b capitalized, Christian Science : GOD 1b
3 : a person's total self
4 a : an active or essential part b : a moving spirit : LEADER
5 a : the moral and emotional nature of human beings b : the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c : spiritual or moral force
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Sept 11, 2004 0:18:44 GMT
okay let me get this straight... demons called the soul stealers steal people's souls and the humans begin to act more like demons and who ever mentions "soul" and "stealer" don't lose their souls? cool i like it.. i have an idea for angel and spike for not losing their souls. the soul stealers can steals the souls of anybody good or bad that is human or human / half demon ,but when they try to steal angel and spike's soul they can't because it's like no one is there. the soul is a reflection of everything that spike and angel are but since they are vampires it's like okay they still have souls but since they are dead there is no use taking someone's soul when it's just not able to reflect it's self because of what they are. and i not making any sense but, hey it was worth a shot. so joss have any ideas about angel and spike still keep their souls? ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Drew on Sept 11, 2004 0:56:31 GMT
Well, there's the simple way: Angel and Spike are elsewhere when it happens.
Just a small idea: The Soul Stealers discover Angel and Spike have souls and are like: Whoa! That's gonna get us some money.
So they start by trying to take Angel's soul, and they "feel" his soul first, and they recoil and they're like: Good God, this thing is worthless! It's been taken out and put back in so many times - ugh, you can keep it pal!"
You may not want them to talk like that.
And then Spike could ask, "What about me?" And his similarity to Angel could also put off the stealers.
As for how humans will act when they are sans soul, going by your definition, they could just have no emotions, no morals, be really boring people.
I'm thinking this will be a good ep to highlight how Angel is acting this arc - not really feeling anything, just going through the motions of atonement. The people around him who lose their souls can kind of highlight that. The lack of difference between Angel and those soulless people should maybe be emphasized. Just a suggestion.
Also, it will highlight the state Fred is in, of course.
Oh, sorry to keep going, but...
I think everyone will react differently when they lose their soul - depending on who they are. Andrew has always been bossed around so maybe he should just sort of have a blank face until someone tells him what to do - and he'll just do it - no matter how weird or terrible it is.
Fred might be fairly frightening w/o a soul.
Tobit may take his soullessness out on humans.
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Sept 11, 2004 1:07:00 GMT
yeah that is the simple way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Sept 11, 2004 4:04:45 GMT
Actually I do want Spike and Angel to be there when it happens to be able to have a bit of funny dialouge between them like "How do I know that you didn't lose their soul" and stuff like that. The Soul Stealers discover Angel and Spike have souls and are like: Whoa! That's gonna get us some money. So they start by trying to take Angel's soul, and they "feel" his soul first, and they recoil and they're like: Good God, this thing is worthless! It's been taken out and put back in so many times - ugh, you can keep it pal!" Now, I had actually thought of something. that kind of involves this. At some point Angel and Spike surround the soul stealers and demand to know why they didn't take their precious souls. The soul stealers give them three reasons: 1. Those two souls have been cut up and rehashed and sent to hell and sent to heaven and blasted apart and reconstructed so many times that they are practically worthless. 2. The actual spell. Taking a soul from a human is a really simple spell, just a couple of ooga booga words and you got it. Taking a soul from a vampire, now that's a whole lot of ingredients, chanting, rituals, latin, a very complicated and expensive spell. It is a really hard spell to do. And it isn't worth it anyway because of reason 1. 3. The soul stealers and 100%, completly sure that with only Angel and Spike standing in their way they can easily take over town, it will be a peace of cake. Now, if the ones that were stading in their way were Angelus and William the Bloody... that complicates things a bit for the soul stealers. Now, I like those things that you said about who humans act when they lose their soul. Makes a lot of sense. |
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Sept 12, 2004 1:34:48 GMT
wow, those are good reasons, i like it.
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Sept 18, 2004 2:09:55 GMT
alright, so what about these soul stealers? what do they look like. the name soul stealers gives a sort of grim reaper appearence, to me that is. i have an idea i just think that the soul stealers have like a leader, you know like a queen bee, who mostly gets the rare souls. so when the the leader gets word of the two vampires with souls then he decides to take the souls for himself,but realizes he can't because of he needs to do some sort of difficult spell just like joss mentioned in one of his reasons. i don't know. so what's new?
|
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Sept 18, 2004 2:30:31 GMT
I've always thought that it would be this way. There are like three real soul stealers. And they have one VERY well defined leader. I think that they could maybe have some zombie like flunkies that they control mentally all the time, but that might or might now work. I just get a very aristocratic visual when I think abou these guys. They come up with the magic and the thinking, but they always sit back from a safe distance while they get some lower creatures to do the lifting and fighting.
If you are a Dungeons and Dragons fan then what I am thinking is a Mind Flayer type deal with these guys. If you are not a D&D fan then sorry but that is the only analogy I can come up with.
Now, physically speaking I have always wanted them to give a feeling of emptiness. They should be very, very thin. A grim reaper type thing could be nice. Now color I want a color that basically represents emptiness.
And that's all I have about these guys.
Oh, one more thing. I've been thinking and want the guys to actually do something with the souls. They are collectors, they enjoy having rare and special kind of souls. But just having them sitting around in jars is a bit boring. And I'm also thinking that maybe they only collect one kind of soul, like a certain specific type of people they wnat for their collection. Andrew, Fred, and Tobit should get theirs stolen because they (andrew) spring some defense mechanism at the creature's lair or something.
I dunno. That's all I have on these guys for now,
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Sept 18, 2004 2:42:07 GMT
you know these soul stealers remind me of the dementors from harry potter. ( if you have seen the third movie then you get what i am saying.) anyways, if you haven't then i 'll explain. the dementors are just emptiness. they do what they are told and that's that. mostly their function is to guard evil prisoners. if one escaped they would kill that person by sucking the soul or something like that.another that also creeped me out about these dementors was that everything would turn cold a sign of how empy they are.anyway, the soul stealers sort of remind me of that.but that is not the point, i just think that they should have some sort of symbol that shows how empty they really are. the grim reaper thing would be cool.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Sept 18, 2004 2:53:43 GMT
At first I was also going for a dementor type thing but then I realized that these guys had to be very different from the dementors. Dementors are basically mindless, they just do whatever they are told or what their instincts tell them. But the soul stealers have to be three things according to my vision for this episode:
1. Incredibly intelligent
2. Calculating
3. Sadistic
It is essential that these guys are brains and amgic rather than brawns. That is why I am saying that they could maybe have some puppet flunkies, they would never, ever let the fight get to them. So while their physical appearance and emptiness may resemble the dementors their mind sets must be quite different.
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Sept 18, 2004 2:59:11 GMT
okay, i see where you are going with this. demons that are actually smart. ;D...... the soul stealers are demons,right?
|
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Sept 18, 2004 3:04:21 GMT
Hmm... human soul stealers, I had never thought of that posiblility...
But nah, the episode is weird enough as it is.
All I'm saying is that all demons have always been portrayed as "Grr, Arg, I have an IQ of 12 but that does not matter because I have big teeth and savage clawsa and will kill everything that crosses my path.
Even the pyleans, fairly intelignet demons were about 1000 years less developed than the humans. It might be nice to actually have demons that depend on their brains rather than their brawn to survive and kill and maim.
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Sept 18, 2004 3:14:28 GMT
i agree this episode this episode is werid enough already. makes my brain hurt. it would nice to see a demon be smart for a change. maybe there could be one at the demon shelter. that would cool. he wears glasses and a suit and has a sort of book worm image going on. anyways, that's not the point. we are here to discuss soul stealers. and i gonna keep discussing about them, but for now i gonna take a little break.
|
|
|
|
Post by angelicslayer on Oct 13, 2004 2:21:42 GMT
anything new about these souls stealers? it's been awhile since i heard about this. so i thought i pop by and see if anyone got any ideas about the soul stealers. i don't ,but i just wanted to see if anyone does.
|
|
Stingray
Vampire
I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move.
Posts: 29
|
Post by Stingray on Oct 28, 2004 19:06:33 GMT
OK, I've got an idea for Spike and Angel not losing their souls. You say that whoever sais "Soul" and "Stealers" in the same sentence doesn't lose their soul. Here's the scenario. Spike is on patrol, and sees them stealing the souls of humans. Of course he's scared out of his wits. Being a vampire, nothing short of magic can give him back his soul. He rushes back to Angel. "What's wrong?" Angel asks "Oh, we've got somethin new mate" Spike begins "Somethin real bad for you and me." Spike starts to pack a bag "What is it, Spike?" Spike snaps his head up "Soul Stealers. Bleeding Soul Stealers." "Soul Stealers" Angel sais dryly "Yea" Spike sais "I don't know about you, but I'm gettin the hell outa dodge." Enter Tobit "What's going on guys?" Angel and Spike in unison "Soul Stealers" Tobit thinks for a minute "Hmm" he sais "I'll see what I can do." exit Tobit. On Spikes way out of town, he runs into the soul stealers. They put their mojo on him, but nothing happens. Spike vamps out "Perfect" he sais, and then goes to town on the soul steales.
I'm not saying that Spike is a coward. I'm just saying that a soul is a precious gift that Spike got the hard way, and I don't think he'd want it torn away from him like that. I know I wouldn't.
As far as how the humans act without their souls. There was an early episode of Angel about a young boy without a soul. He acted like a normal little boy should around other people. But when he got the chance, he tried to burn his little sister alive.
|
|
Stingray
Vampire
I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move.
Posts: 29
|
Post by Stingray on Oct 28, 2004 19:22:55 GMT
One more thing. Don't know if you'd want to do something like this. But how about Angel and Spike corral their friends, and lock them up in the cage in the basement of Angel's hotel. It could be a nice surprise for readers to go back to old surroundings. And they could visualize it more clearly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Oct 29, 2004 3:17:33 GMT
I've Got You Under My Skin, one of my all time favorite episodes of Angel. This is one of those Angel episodes that I've seen discussed over and over again. Particularly on the point of whether the kid was really soul-less. I've always thought that he was, there have got to be some humans that are genuinly evil, that balance out the rest of the humans.
Now, please allow me to post something from Winning which I think might come into play here:
Drew wrote:
|
|
|
|
Post by Joss on Nov 7, 2004 4:03:57 GMT
Guys, something that I have been thinking about for the last few days, Tobit. He has a very direct link to the PTB, such that they are pretty much there inside of him all of the time, being a part of him. What I'm wondering is if the loss of his soul will somehow give the Powers more/less control over him? Here is a person that has lost a lot of himself, that is why the Powers can control him. When he loses yet another piece of himself does this give the Powers even more control over him? Or are these two things completly parallel and unrelated?  |
|
Stingray
Vampire
I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move.
Posts: 29
|
Post by Stingray on Feb 2, 2005 20:03:32 GMT
Guys, something that I have been thinking about for the last few days, Tobit. He has a very direct link to the PTB, such that they are pretty much there inside of him all of the time, being a part of him. What I'm wondering is if the loss of his soul will somehow give the Powers more/less control over him? Here is a person that has lost a lot of himself, that is why the Powers can control him. When he loses yet another piece of himself does this give the Powers even more control over him? Or are these two things completly parallel and unrelated? Here's an idea. Since his head is the only thing not dead, Tobit will constantly speak one thing, and his body will do another. This could make for a reason for Angel to look more closely at Tobit, and his connection with the Powers That Be. |
|
|
|
Post by Drew on Feb 2, 2005 21:28:50 GMT
Or since we've somewhat established the theory that souls are put in place to keep people in line, maybe The Powers lose control of Tobit.
|
|
