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Post by LizaP on Jun 25, 2004 18:00:34 GMT
I think it would make more sense if Tobit brought our heros to the center, instead of them just showing up. If we aren't going to show the battle against the demon hordes, why not show the three of them regrouping somewhere, and Tobit coming up to them telling them that he has a place for them, and bringing them to the center. You have to have a logical introduction to the demon center, since it hasn't existed before on Angel's radar. And I like the idea of the PTB and their "tools" approaching our heros, rather than our heros simply finding out about them on their own.
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 25, 2004 21:16:29 GMT
Would this just be a day job for Tobit? Kinda like as a tool while he does his realy job for the powers. Like Spiderman working for the paper...
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Post by Drew on Jun 28, 2004 16:54:02 GMT
Well, if I have my way (see Story Development), Tobit and the Powers will use the Center for their own purpose.
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Post by Drew on Jul 6, 2004 21:07:41 GMT
Here's an idea for Tobit that Joss and I had been discussing:
Since it seems like we're going to go for this idea that the Shelter will be used to breed hatred towards humans, then let's sell that idea more. So let's say Tobit is a demon who was tortured and tormented by humans. They meant to kill him, but they only killed most of him. What I mean by that is that he's a demon that dies in pieces, parts of him die. Let's say he's dead all the way from his feet to his neck. The only reason he can still use those parts of his body is that the Powers stepped in and gave him a mission and they gave him back the use of his body. Now he wears full clothing, even gloves, to cover the hideous dead parts of his body. So you'd never know that anything was wrong unless he took his gloves or his shirt off. We don't have to go as far as pants. So he hates humans for this, and he's willing to go with the Power's plan of starting this war. he's the perfect candidate for the job, really. He knows what humans can do when they have too much of the power, when Good is a little too good. That's what the conditions were like when they hurt him. They hurt him because they could.
On the outside, he does everything to mask the pain. There's the clothes and the gloves (blue gloves, anyone?). But there's also his demeanor. Cheerful, sarcastic, jokey, humble. Like someone who's not cut out for the job....but he is - and when he finally shows Angel how cut out for the job he really is, it's gonna hurt.
Throughout part of the season, we'd also like to see The Powers occassionaly (and briefly) take over certain parts of Tobit's body - you know, make his hand or leg do something he doesn't want it to do. This brief control they would take is confusing to him. He didn't really agree with them that they would do something like this. They can make him fight even if he doesn't want to. They can make him not fight. They can, in the end, imbue this body with incredible physical power.
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jul 6, 2004 23:27:46 GMT
when i first read that idea I wasn't much of a fan but I have to say after thinking about it I really do like it. It gives him the perfect motivation to do the powers work, even if he knows it's not totally right his anger drives him. I think that comes across a lot in the real world too. What if the powers approached him before and he said no and then they kinda set up the attack on him knowing that this may change his decision?
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Post by LizaP on Jul 6, 2004 23:51:24 GMT
It's a good idea but instead of having him hide the scars or whatever with clothes, have them show up bit by bit - like when we first see Tobit, a lot of him is in shadow and we see hints of deformity - and then with the next two episodes we see more of him shysically and it looks like he is a demon but he tells our heros the story that the PTB rescued him and gave him a mission to help others (hence the demon shelter) so we finally see that he was telling the truth from his point of view but it wasnt' the complete truth regarding the fight between good and evil.
He shouldn't look totally human but he shouldnt' be really scary either. In my opinion.
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Post by Inyan on Jul 7, 2004 8:35:35 GMT
I like the idea. Has anyone seen Hellsing? Im thinking that Tobits character should be a bit like the Vatican preists. Also im leaning towards white gloves. If hes suppused to be all good we could go for the full White Hat image. Maybe he could even have a white top hat - KIDDING.
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Post by Inyan on Jul 7, 2004 10:12:07 GMT
I just relaised that my last post might be confusing. When I say Hellsing I mean the Japanese Anime program and not the rather crappy movie Van Hellsing.
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Post by Inyan on Jul 7, 2004 10:13:22 GMT
I like the idea of torchure/abuse by humans, but I thought we wanted Tobit to be human? I liked the whole chosen before birth thing, it smacks of the main theme of our season - the PTB meddling were they shouldn't be. I think it would work better if Tobit was shunned by his birth family because of his powers/visions and he found refuge with a demon family. When they were discovered and torchured ( I dont think im spelling that right ? ) he was mistaken as a demon along with his adopted family and this is were his loathing of humans comes from.
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Post by Drew on Jul 7, 2004 17:58:10 GMT
Well, I've always thought demon because that way he can handle being the link to the Powers, just like Doyle and the demonized Cordy.
I'm not a big fan of the chosen before birth thing because it just seems so cliche. I think he should be chosen because of what has happened to him.
And I think the Powers having control over his body parts works really well with the theme.
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Post by Doyle on Jul 8, 2004 5:02:31 GMT
I like the idea that the shelter and Tobit are enemies of mankind. If we do play off this, I would urge a second look at my idea to bring back the Scourge in a new (less stupid) form.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jul 9, 2004 2:59:51 GMT
Drew's convincing me that Tobit should be a kind of demon, with a soul at least. The dead body idea is kind of cool and creative. Gives him some nice motivation.
The shelter and its inhabitants aren't really the enemies of mankind. They should get along with each other. It's these outside forces and old hatreds that make them enemies. Right?
As far as the Scourge, I didn't like them as bad guys but the idea behind them was cool. I'm not opposed to stealing the concept and making it into our own
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Post by Drew on Jul 9, 2004 3:30:49 GMT
The shelter and its inhabitants aren't really the enemies of mankind. They should get along with each other. It's these outside forces and old hatreds that make them enemies. Right? Yeah, they SHOULD get along with each other. But they don't. The way I see it, demons don't get the good end of the bargain...ever. They have to live in a sort of underworld, especially the ones that don't look human. And they resent humans for this. Hence conflict and pain.
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