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Post by Joss on Jun 19, 2004 23:46:59 GMT
Yay! positive feedback ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Joss on Jun 20, 2004 0:46:49 GMT
Hey guys, just a thought, it doesn't matter how likeable we make Alan at the beginning I think that by the end of the season we should make the readers hate every single fiber of his guts.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Post by Dismas on Jun 20, 2004 18:54:48 GMT
Hey guys, just a thought, it doesn't matter how likeable we make Alan at the beginning I think that by the end of the season we should make the readers hate every single fiber of his guts. Betrayal usually inspired the most hatred, especially if we convince everyone to trust him at the beginning The gypsies, they gave me my soul. The gypsies are filthy people! (Spits) We will speak of them no more!
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Post by Drew on Jun 20, 2004 19:00:06 GMT
Hey guys, just a thought, it doesn't matter how likeable we make Alan at the beginning I think that by the end of the season we should make the readers hate every single fiber of his guts. Why? If Alan is a good guy in general and the powers are the ones taking him over and turning him bad, then we should hate the Powers, not Alan. And I'm not even sure if we should hate the Powers. They aren't evil. I think the key to this season is that NOTHING is black and white. Nothing. I'd rather Alan have a tragic end than a villainous end.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 20, 2004 20:32:04 GMT
One of my favorite axioms is "Black is black, white is white and goodness can come from either but never from gray."
What I'm trying to say is, something can first appear as gray, but eventually become black or white. Your choice.
I think the idea of Tobit (good name) starting as obviously good and on Angel's side and then turning back to the PTB and in Angel's eyes becoming black is a great idea. Nothing is ever really as it seems.
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Post by Drew on Jun 20, 2004 22:14:42 GMT
Okay, I guess what it depends on is whether Tobit makes the choice to turn back to the PTB or if he is about to turn away from them and the PTB hijack his brain and body and make him the villain.
It's all about his choice.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 21, 2004 0:21:28 GMT
And to keep fighting the good fight.
I don't see the PTB making him a villain, I see them pushing him to put their plans in place. It just turns out that their plans are contrary to Angel's & Grace's plans (unless I've totally misread everything).
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 21, 2004 10:23:29 GMT
I think it could be good to play on the fact that he was trying to help Angel but as the powers didn't like what he was doing they hijacked his mind so he didn't have a choice. It kinda deals with the whole 'free will' thing that seems to be running through the season and it shows just how mighty the powers are, that they can just take control of a person and they will stop at nothing to bring about their plan no matter who gets hurt, even if that means their champ.
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Post by Drew on Jun 21, 2004 17:14:49 GMT
I think it could be good to play on the fact that he was trying to help Angel but as the powers didn't like what he was doing they hijacked his mind so he didn't have a choice. It kinda deals with the whole 'free will' thing that seems to be running through the season and it shows just how mighty the powers are, that they can just take control of a person and they will stop at nothing to bring about their plan no matter who gets hurt, even if that means their champ. Yeah, that does really highlight the theme of the Good Apoc really well. About how we don't need the Powers to run our lives. Alan's hijacked mind would parallel that really well.
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Post by Joss on Jun 21, 2004 17:42:43 GMT
Okay guys, since it seems that everyone is agreed and has no objections the name Tobit has been approved and the name of this thread has been changed from Alan to Tobit.
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Post by Drew on Jun 21, 2004 21:07:22 GMT
Tobit. Tobit. Tobit. Tobit. Tobit. Tobit. Alan. Tobit. Tobit. Tobit. Tobit. Tobit. Alan. Dammit! This is gonna be a tough adjustment.
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Post by chris on Jun 22, 2004 11:53:41 GMT
If he was trying to get away from his destiny as a conduit for the powers and he knew his name had meaning maybe he would try and cover it up by calling himself Tobey or something and it is only those like the powers and later Grace who call him by his real name. Just an idea.
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Post by Drew on Jun 22, 2004 15:31:03 GMT
I think he would introduce himself as Tobit and then say "You can call me Tobey." Or someone like Spike might just start calling him Tobey.
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Post by LizaP on Jun 23, 2004 23:12:54 GMT
If he was trying to get away from his destiny as a conduit for the powers and he knew his name had meaning maybe he would try and cover it up by calling himself Tobey or something and it is only those like the powers and later Grace who call him by his real name. Just an idea. A good idea, really.
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PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 25, 2004 6:50:16 GMT
now is this guy (tob) human? if the powers are gonna blackmail him or whatever whats his background ? ? ? maybe he has a family; and they can use that as a bargaining chip
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Post by Joss on Jun 25, 2004 6:50:58 GMT
Yeah, our man's human. We had talked about him having a life out of "Let's help then destroy Angel" so yeah, he could perfectly have a family somewhere.
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Post by Drew on Jun 25, 2004 17:30:17 GMT
Yeah, our man's human. We had talked about him having a life out of "Let's help then destroy Angel" so yeah, he could perfectly have a family somewhere. Um, I don't know if we ever decided he was human. I've been going on the assumption that he's a demon. That's how he can handle having the Powers in his head all the time. I had an idea that should be crossreferenced with the "Setting" thread. So we meet Tobit in the first ep. What if he is working for a sort of Demon Community Center. He could be running it. This center gets clothing for the demon underworld, has food drives, raises funds for demons that aren't doing too well. Stuff like that. This is good organization so it could highlight well the gradual corruption of the Good system in favor of balance. Also, after ep. 4, when Angel can't start Angel Investigations, he could get a small job there - maybe even Spike, too. I see Tobit showing Angel to his new (very tiny office), and Spike is already sitting in there. He got a job first and picked the nice office (even though it is tiny), and Angel has to get the smaller office across the hall from him. In ep. 5 some demons could come in seeking shelter because they've been frightened away from the home by the presence of Grace. I don't know, just a thought. We really need to pick some new settings and to get Tobit a life.
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Post by Joss on Jun 25, 2004 17:33:06 GMT
Just to clarify a point. If this guy is a demon then is he like the Doyle that can just have a human face on 90% of the time?
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Post by Joss on Jun 25, 2004 17:38:46 GMT
Oh, and one thing.
I like the idea of Tobit working at some sort of demon center and then making Angel and Spike come to work there. I was wondering how we'd make them stay together after Ep. 4 and this works nicely enough.
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Post by Drew on Jun 25, 2004 17:46:50 GMT
Just to clarify a point. If this guy is a demon then is he like the Doyle that can just have a human face on 90% of the time? Does he even have to have a human face? Here is some lame justification: All other Firefly actors on Buffyverse shows had human faces. Let's change that! Anyway, lame justification. And as for the center, I'd been struggling for awhile trying to think of where Angel, Spike, and Illy would show up after being pulled out of the alley. So the first ep could start panning to a window of the center. It's raining hard - the same night of the fight. Tobit is standing looking out at the storm. Someone comes up behind him, whispers into his ear. He turns, surprised? "Already?" he says. The man nods. Tobit moves through the Center. We follow him, getting an idea of what he place is like (Demons sleeeping on cots, classrooms, a gym, cafeteria, kitchen, offices, etc) and he comes to a small lounge or something and finds our heroes there.
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