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Grace
Jun 6, 2004 20:41:26 GMT
Post by Joss on Jun 6, 2004 20:41:26 GMT
Okay guys, it seems that we are all pretty much agreed that one of the new characters that will be joining Angel, Illyria, and Spike will be an older woman who we have for now named Grace.
Now we have been thinking of having this woman have a lot of powers, be a Power that Be, be a former Power that... um, I guess Was, give off a feeling of unease, have Angel, Spike, and even Illyira feel afraid around her, ext.
Also, at first we cast Meryl Streep for her, but recasting we got Helen Mirren as a much better fit.
Since it seems that we are pretty certain that she will be part of the new season I think it´s a good idea to give this woman a thead of her own.
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Grace
Jun 6, 2004 21:10:27 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 6, 2004 21:10:27 GMT
Just a quick repeat of my ideas on her:
-A former PTB, now human. -She rebelled against the other Powers in S5 and sent Angel the final Cordy vision in "You're Welcome." -Perhaps somehow she "bucked the system" of the PTB and now that system has collapsed, just as Angel bucked the evil W&H system. -So that would mean, no more PTB and no more W&H. Angel's primary helpers/sponsors and his primary enemy are both gone. Result: Chaos. Both must deal with consequences of their actions. -Grace, in a final act as a Power before she makes herself human (or is made by the other Powers) pulls Angel & Co. out of the alley. -As a human, she has forgotten much of what it was to be a Power. She may not even remember that she was a Power. She does know that she has profound feelings of loss, and she can sometimes be found crying. she is very quiet and somber. -Her greatest power is the echo of her former power. People and creatures can feel it when they are around her. It scares them, makes them uneasy. She can force her will upon them often merely because they are frightened. But they can't explain it. And neither can she. -She has come to this world because of the upheaval she caused amongst the Powers meant that coming here would be the only way she could continue to help Angel. She is the one that will help him toward starting the Good Apocalypse at the end of the season.
I think a good opening shot to the season would be panning across a room to find her crying in bed or somewhere. Because moments earlier she became human. Then maybe someone would come and get her - a servant she has already established on Earth to tell her that Angel and Co. are in the next room badly bleeding and missing limbs.
Her name is Grace and I think she really should be graceful. Her body is new to her but she can master it.
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Grace
Jun 6, 2004 21:19:33 GMT
Post by Joss on Jun 6, 2004 21:19:33 GMT
Hey guys, I just thought of something:
We have to be real careful about how we show her loosing her power and adapting to life as a human on the Earth. I am saying that we need to be careful because it could very easily turn into something very similar to the whole Illyria deal.
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Grace
Jun 6, 2004 21:30:03 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 6, 2004 21:30:03 GMT
I think the differences would be:
She doesn't walk about bragging about her former power. She doesn't even know she had it. Instead of using violence as a means to vent her pain, she mopes and cries. To the point where it may start to irritate the other characters. They will think she's this pathetic woman and then a third or halfway or two thirds into the season, they will discover what she once was. And I think it would be good if she chose to become human, to lose her past glory. Which is different. She does it for the good of everyone but she suffers.
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 1:02:13 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 7, 2004 1:02:13 GMT
It is similar to Illyria's situation enough that it feels like we are just mirroring her character. I like the idea that "grace" would instead be a mirror of Angel and what he once had before moving on to her own path with Angel & Co herself later in the season.
I'm still championing (no pun intended) my concept of her being the PTB's replacement for Angel and having them somewhat at odds with eachother through most of the season. It sets the mission statement early on when angel is doubting his recent actions, that no matter what, there is no going back now.
One more thing that has been mentioned is the lack of human characters...I kind of like it. After Fred, Wes, and Gunn, I don't think Angel will be signing on anyone who isnt nigh powerful themself anymore....or at least a while. IF "grace" does show up as somewhat of a "normal" human we absolutely should not go with the crying idea as it would definitely not convince Angel to keep her around and in fact, motivate him to get her out his hair and somewhere "safe" from them.
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 1:51:18 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 7, 2004 1:51:18 GMT
I'm still championing (no pun intended) my concept of her being the PTB's replacement for Angel and having them somewhat at odds with eachother through most of the season. It sets the mission statement early on when angel is doubting his recent actions, that no matter what, there is no going back now. What keeps confusing me about that idea, though, is that Powers wanted Angel to do what he did. So then why replace him? And I'm not saying the Powers just manipulated him to attack TCBT. They showed him something and he made the choice to fight. So why would they replace him? And a replacement for Angel feels like a rehashing of "Soul Purpose" when Spike was made out as Angel's replacement. I know it was a fake, but it still seems repetitive. And if she's his new replacement, well then she needs TONS of backstory. I'm NOT saying that's a reason NOT to do it, just that she's not just going to be a person who suddenly, in an instant, becomes the champion of TPTB. She'll have to have been around for awhile. Why haven't they run into her before? I guess I just need more details to convince me. And I'd be wary of having the season turn into a rivalry between Grace and Angel just like last season had the rivalry between Angel and Spike. Yikes, like everything in this universe reminds me of something that has already been done. I can see the Illyria/Grace connections. Now I can see the Spike/Grace connections. My brain hurts.
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PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 4:22:32 GMT
Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 7, 2004 4:22:32 GMT
damn. making a show is alotta work
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 7:38:04 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 7, 2004 7:38:04 GMT
damn. making a show is alotta work Just wait till we start dealing with the actors. Those people think they're on a whole 'nother level than us. I don't know if people remember but I had this idea for the season starting with the guy who wrote the Shanshu staring at the prophecy wistfully and drinking. He would be the one to pull the MoG out of the alley and to safety. What if Grace was the prophecy writer? Now, I know some people didn't like the idea of the prophecy writer, but I don't think I ever got a reason. If the reason is that you don't want Shanshu to take over the season, to be a dominant element, then I'm right there with you. Grace would just want the prophecy to come to be, she just wants the apocalypse to happen so that she is right. But now that they have prevented any apocalypses from happening, this can't happen. So her interest is their interest. . .I don't know what I'm saying anymore. Just a thought. Tear it to pieces, boys and girls. Or stand glumly by and agree with it. Whichever.
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 16:35:28 GMT
Post by IAMCHRSGEMATL on Jun 7, 2004 16:35:28 GMT
I like the idea of her being an ousted power. What if because she went against them, and let Cordy go back to Angel in Welcome Home and give him that vision, her punishment is to BE human. They strip her of her powers and just send her back to earth?
I think the idea that everyone is getting for this season is Chaos right? I think that we should have where TPB didnt want Angel to go up against Black Thorn and the SP because it would cause imbalance and mess with thier standing as higher powers. So in essesance (sp?) everything is screwed up now and thats why they are holding him and his friends to keep from doing more harm. But now everything is in chaos and they need him more then ever so send him back. Maybe even have Grace has an exile like I said and then they start giving her visions like Cordy??
thoughts?
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 20:43:15 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 7, 2004 20:43:15 GMT
I like the idea of her being an ousted power. Well, you seem to be in the majority and I guess I'm in the minority on this one so it looks as if that is the direction we are going with her. Rejoice. I'm going to use the same arguement that I stated elsewhere: no way is Angel going to just welcome another powerless human into the fold after what happened to Fred, Wes, and Gunn. I can't remember who it was on this board, but they had what I consider to be the definitive take on the whole vision thing: "Been there, done that". I tend to agree.
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 21:22:16 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 7, 2004 21:22:16 GMT
Well, you seem to be in the majority and I guess I'm in the minority on this one so it looks as if that is the direction we are going with her. Rejoice. I wouldn't say that just yet. I think only one other person has really said they like the idea. And you're right on some things, like Angel not wanting to take another human in with him - there'd have to be a reason, I guess. And I no longer like the idea that The Powers take away her power. That definitely IS too "been there done that." I'd rather have her strip herself of power for the greater good - a personal sacrifice. And no visions, either. So I'm pretty uncertain about things now, too. The only thing I know I would like to see is The Powers powerless, just like W&H is powerless. No organization on either front. And that sort of thing doesn't even have to have anything to do with Grace - whoever we decide to make her - it'd just be nice if it did have something to do with her.
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 21:55:20 GMT
Post by Jaxxson on Jun 7, 2004 21:55:20 GMT
well we could have it that the TPTB pulled angel and the group out of the alley and hid them alway for a few months or years and the army that W&H sent has been running wild and is distroing the earth and TPTB unabel to send angel and co back because they're powers were drained from pulling them out have them send them back a few months or years later to try and fix things and along with sending angel and co they send Grace to help them out some well needed strangth but she could have an alturnive (sp?) motiove or somthing or she thinks that she is being punished or somthing
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Grace
Jun 7, 2004 22:33:20 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 7, 2004 22:33:20 GMT
The only thing I know I would like to see is The Powers powerless, just like W&H is powerless. No organization on either front. That got me thinking and heres a "what if" scenario: lets say we don't make the PTB powerless....the balance is out of whack because of Angel....would the PTB effectively be the villains then.....being "too good" that evil needs to step it back up a notch to catch up? Maybe the PTB are the ones who are out of control this season and Angel & Co. have to restart the apocalypse to "even" it back out? I dunno, I'm just brainstorming here. Maybe its too jasmine-y. But it would fit with the starting their own apocalypse thing.
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Grace
Jun 8, 2004 6:22:42 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jun 8, 2004 6:22:42 GMT
My take on Grace is a) she doesn't cry or mope, she lost something but she's not powerless nor does she feel sorry for herself because there is the niggling feeling that whatever she did, it was the right thing to do; b) she's not particularly trusting of anyone at this point; c) she has not lost the mission; d) her mission is to bring back the balance.
I may be way off on her, but that's the kind of character I see Grace as - not kick-ass but certainly not weak. I like the powerful mind thingy though. Just my take on her - you are now free to blow it out of the water.
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Grace
Jun 8, 2004 6:25:57 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 8, 2004 6:25:57 GMT
I agree with everything above, except the mind power thing. That's a tough sell to me. I'd rather find another avenue to explore regarding her powers.
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Grace
Jun 8, 2004 6:30:38 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jun 8, 2004 6:30:38 GMT
There has to be some kind of power that Angel & Co haven't had before - whether it's a mind power or a magic power or whatever shouldn't matter too much but the key is that she's NOT powerless and it's a power that none of the other characters have. A former PTB needs something to sway destiny and calibrate the balance between good and evil, and where do the concepts of good and evil lie except in our minds?
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Grace
Jun 8, 2004 7:12:31 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 8, 2004 7:12:31 GMT
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Grace
Jun 8, 2004 7:38:38 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 8, 2004 7:38:38 GMT
It's a power she has no control over. It's just fear. An echo.
Also, regarding the PTB becoming so powerful - like an imbalance - I don't know. . .the idea that Angel and Co. would have to make things eviler just puts me out. If anything, it would have to be done very carefully.
I'm still pushing for Angel and Co. starting a Good Apocalypse at the end of the season, not a bad.
And LizaP, I think the way she should "sway destiny and calibrate the balance" is by her shear will power, her utter devotion to doing good. She gave up her status as a PTB because she knew it was the only way she could help Angel. And she gave up that status because the Powers were under attack or something.
I just like the parallel between the deposed SP and the deposed PTB.
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Grace
Jun 8, 2004 8:13:38 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 8, 2004 8:13:38 GMT
It's a power she has no control over. It's just fear. An echo. I like that idea. A lot. Much better than the mental powers thing.
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Grace
Jun 8, 2004 8:19:08 GMT
Post by Jaxxson on Jun 8, 2004 8:19:08 GMT
we could also have it that when she gets made then poeple around her start feeling a little confused or we could have it that every one around her feels what she feels if its anger our sadness they feel just a little of it but the hole time the feel fear
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