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Fred
Jun 4, 2004 1:03:29 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 4, 2004 1:03:29 GMT
I assumed Illyria would keep the "real" Fred's body as her shell and Fred herself would end up in a "copy". Since Amy was to be doing dual roles, I figure that or something similar, is where they were going with that.
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Fred
Jun 4, 2004 5:22:38 GMT
Post by bisquick on Jun 4, 2004 5:22:38 GMT
please reconsider doing this. I just think "splitting her" is a bad idea. if anything, perhaps some of Fred might "leak" through. but why do this anyways? Fred is dead and it would be interesting to continue exploring how Illryia adapts
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Fred
Jun 4, 2004 5:38:12 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 4, 2004 5:38:12 GMT
I agree, splitting Illyria is probably not the best thing to do. BUT: a lot of people seem for it, and after having thought about, it's not a terrible thing. Personally, I have at least one episode idea that I really like for the split Fred and Illyria, and I can foresee many other interesting things coming from it. But it is a bit of a retread. Still, I'm not hating it.
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Fred
Jun 4, 2004 8:04:20 GMT
Post by jake on Jun 4, 2004 8:04:20 GMT
Fred is dead. Bringing her back weakens the events of S5. Everyone pretty much accepted she is gone. We were beat over the head with she's gone, she's gone, she's gone, she's gone. This isn't Marvel comics. I suppose you just can't keep that fanboy spirit down. If she was brought back I hope I would be surprised with how and why. Good luck if this is the way the story develops.
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Fred
Jun 4, 2004 8:55:46 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 4, 2004 8:55:46 GMT
It's no secret that Joss had planned for the Fred/Illyria split to happen in S6. Jeff Bell has gone on record as saying as much. So if anybody is going to get accused of the "fanboy" tag or accused of being "marvel comics" it would have to be Mutant Enemy.
I'm probably the biggest advocate of bringing her back, but only because it was already in the cards and I want to stay true to what we know was to occur in S6 had they had the oppourtunity to do so. Personally, I didnt like Fred much at all and her death did not affect me in the slightest, but I see the characters' potential given a resurrection at this point in the series.
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Fred
Jun 4, 2004 15:21:23 GMT
Post by jibberish on Jun 4, 2004 15:21:23 GMT
the question is where do you get a new shell? to magically create a duplicate body is just too easy for me. all you really need is an empty body(different actress). a corpse, a vamp...or maybe they could choose to save fred over illyria, only to have illyria's essence go into the closest corpse. now there's an idea, eh? if prior to fred's emergence in the shell, illyria had had a falling out with angel and company, they could chose to expel illyria from the body. illyria could enter the corpse of a freshly slain demon or something and become something of a big bad.....just a thought.
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Fred
Jun 5, 2004 3:49:52 GMT
Post by Joss on Jun 5, 2004 3:49:52 GMT
Okay guys, how about this:
Angel and Co. go speak to the Big Guy in Charge of all Soul related spells. They tells them that the resurfacing of Fred will eventually end in Illyria's death. Now there are two spells that could help out:
1. A spell that will enter the shell of Illyria and destroy the resurfacing soul, leaving only Illyria, the dominants soul.
2. The second spell will require a living shell. The spell will basicaly link Fred's shell and the living shell. The spell will erradicate the current host of the new, living shell and transfer either Fred or Illyria into this now empty shell.
So you see the dilema. Do they A. Allow both Illyria and Fred to die B. Destroy Fred or C. Separate Illyria and Fred with the cost of one single, innocent life?
**Cough** option C **Cough**
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Fred
Jun 6, 2004 0:55:05 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jun 6, 2004 0:55:05 GMT
I raise my hand for option C. Great idea and it shouldn't be too difficult to write.
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Fred
Jun 6, 2004 1:30:32 GMT
Post by ChrsgemATL on Jun 6, 2004 1:30:32 GMT
Option C
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Fred
Jun 6, 2004 1:37:17 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 6, 2004 1:37:17 GMT
Wow. i just posted a blank post. Good thing I can modify. Yes, Option C is the best. But they would not want to choose that option. the MoG would rather Fred's resurfacing soul kill Illyria (after all, it's only fair, that's what illyria did to Fred). But Illyria will not want to die so she will most likely take matters into her own hands. Or to go the unexpected route, Illyria, affected by her new emotions, decides that the right thing to do is to die. And we think that's what is going to happen, but then some new character steps in in the last few moments and suddenly kills the innocent for them. maybe Grace would do that.
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Fred
Jun 8, 2004 23:58:21 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 8, 2004 23:58:21 GMT
Or to go the unexpected route, Illyria, affected by her new emotions, decides that the right thing to do is to die. And we think that's what is going to happen, but then some new character steps in in the last few moments and suddenly kills the innocent for them. maybe Grace would do that. I couldn't agree more, Drew. But maybe the person who would step in to kill the innocent would be Fred herself. She would resurface in Illyria for a moment and kill the person in front of Angel & Co., completely shocking them. Then, some smoke and a few mirrors later, Fred and Illyria are split and the MoG are left wondering exactly what kind of Fred has just been let loose. . . And then the next episode deals with Fred trying to kill Illyria even though that would mean she dies, too. Any thoughts on the "new" Fred killing an innocent?
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Fred
Jun 9, 2004 0:08:33 GMT
Post by Doyle on Jun 9, 2004 0:08:33 GMT
Not real fond of this idea.
At all.
I would rather Fred go "dark" as a result of her return to the realm of the living where she finds out how messed up things have gotten since she died.
I do like the idea that Illy and Fred are basically symbiotes to eachother -needing eachother to live- but that is really where it should stop.
I'm still a big advocate of Illy keeping the Fred shell and Fred being stuck in a copy. Forced to deal with the fact that Illy -the one responsible for her death- is now wearing her face. Like looking in a twisted mirror of herself.
Anyone notice how much the idea of "mirrors" of characters is popping up in the discussions here? Maybe an underlying theme?
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Fred
Jun 9, 2004 4:41:22 GMT
Post by Dismas on Jun 9, 2004 4:41:22 GMT
I've heard the real Angel writers intended to split Illyria and Fred, but are we sure this was going to be a season-long thing? I'd always pictured it as temporary. Are we going out of our way to incorporate ideas that weren't really there?
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PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Fred
Jun 9, 2004 6:29:10 GMT
Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 9, 2004 6:29:10 GMT
personally, I wouldnt split them.
to me, it doesnt make much sense. I mean, Illyria is living offf of Freds shell. there cant be 2 shells all of a sudden.
if anything I like the idea of Fred beginning to resurface, but even if she never did, I think Illyria is a strong enough character on her own
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PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Fred
Jun 9, 2004 7:17:30 GMT
Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 9, 2004 7:17:30 GMT
me again. I probably shouldve posted here, and I apolgize,
I had an idea, more like an epiphany about the Fred?illyria thing. its reply # 16 in "Single Episode story ideas" which you will find under "Ideas"
again, I hadta post cuz I was on a tangent, but I pologize, but I think its worth reading
PuppetCancer out
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Fred
Jun 18, 2004 23:42:08 GMT
Post by Dismas on Jun 18, 2004 23:42:08 GMT
Bumping the Fred Thread.
Borrowing from ideas all over the place, is this a good way for this to play out:
1) Illyria sticks around and helps Angel and Spike, becoming a good guy....girl...I was always confused about that. 2) An encounter with Grace wakes Fred inside Illyria, filling the void left by all the power Illyria lost. 3) Illyria starts unconciously showing Fred-like traits - laughing, smiling, flirting, letting sentences run on too long. 4) Everyone realizes Fred is trying to get out, and she's pissed off. They start morphing back and forth. 5) Illyria will die if Fred completely emerges. Angel tries to find a way to save them both, infuriating Fred. 6) Somehow they separate.
I think it would be a good twist if one of the good guys sided with Alan Turdyk's character when he's revealed to be Angel's enemy. Fred and Illyria are both good candidates. Illyria would favor the Power's goals of order and stability. Fred's becoming conflicted enough to go to the dark side. If we decide to make Fred evil I think the split should give her Illyria's strength, since no one likes a puny villian.
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Fred
Jun 19, 2004 4:36:57 GMT
Post by Drew on Jun 19, 2004 4:36:57 GMT
5) Illyria will die if Fred completely emerges. Angel tries to find a way to save them both, infuriating Fred. I think it would be a good twist if one of the good guys sided with Alan Turdyk's character when he's revealed to be Angel's enemy. Fred and Illyria are both good candidates. Illyria would favor the Power's goals of order and stability. Fred's becoming conflicted enough to go to the dark side. If we decide to make Fred evil I think the split should give her Illyria's strength, since no one likes a puny villian. What it looks like we'll be doing right now is that in order to save them both an innocent will have to die. Angel won't want to do this so he (and by the end of the episode, Illyria) will accept the fact that Fred's emerging sould will kill Illyria. But then a third party steps in and suddenly kills the innocent. and they are seperated. As for someone going over to the Power's side. that's a good idea. I'm not sure who it would be though. Illyria wouldn't route for power and stability. She is a power all her own - a former king/queen thing that wants to rule everything herself. Balance definitely isn't her style. And we're not too set on what we think Fred is going to be like yet so I'm not sure about her. I don't think we should make her evil. So I'm not sure who it would be. Andrew? He's likes it when people give him orders. He needs orders. Alan could potentially pursuade him. Hmmm....I'll have to think about that more. oooh, but after the chaos of the season, after all that she has lost, Fred may want the balance that the Powers are offering. Wow. Lots to think about.
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chris
Champion
Posts: 124
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Fred
Jun 19, 2004 10:51:03 GMT
Post by chris on Jun 19, 2004 10:51:03 GMT
So I'm not sure who it would be. Andrew? He's likes it when people give him orders. He needs orders. Alan could potentially pursuade him. Hmmm....I'll have to think about that more. Evil Andrew was done on buffy and not too well so I don't know if i like the idea of him going onto the powers' side. Just my opinion...
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Fred
Jun 19, 2004 18:50:08 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jun 19, 2004 18:50:08 GMT
Interesting idea that Illyria would side with one of the former PTB (either Grace or Alan) and Fred would side with the other.
I think that a dark Fred would side with the Alan character and a reluctant Illyria would side with Grace. But I'm not sure what would force the alliances.
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PuppetCancer
Champion
I do NOT have puppet cancer!
Posts: 108
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Fred
Jun 20, 2004 5:45:08 GMT
Post by PuppetCancer on Jun 20, 2004 5:45:08 GMT
so eventually theres gonna be a Fred AND Illyria co-existing ? ? ? with neither of them dying or any consequences ? ? ? if this did happen in s6 I dont think it wouldve played out that way. I dont think they would kill Fred, which was a monumental death, only to get a new character out of it then to miraculously bring her back and have double the fun. does anyone else see any problems wth this
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