|
Tobit
Jul 11, 2004 17:21:48 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 11, 2004 17:21:48 GMT
Tobit is a demon who was tortured and tormented by humans. They meant to kill him, but they only killed most of him. What we mean by this is that he is a demon that dies in pieces. Parts of him die. If all the parts die - he dies...completely. Most of his body parts from his feet to his neck have been killed. The only reason he can still use those parts of his body is that the Powers stepped in and gave him a mission, and they gave him back the use of his body. Now he wears full clothing, even gloves, to cover the hideous dead parts of his body. So you'd never know that anything was wrong unless he took his gloves or his shirt off. We don't have to go as far as pants. He hates humans for what they did to him, and he's willing to go with the Power's plan of starting a war between demons and humans. He's the perfect candidate for the job, really. He knows what humans can do when they have too much of the power, when Good is a little too good. That's what the conditions were like when they hurt him. They hurt him because they could.
On the outside, he does everything to mask the pain. There's the clothes and the gloves. But there's also his demeanor: cheerful, sarcastic, jokey. He acts like someone who's not cut out for the job of conduit to The Powers That Be....but he is - and when he finally shows Angel how cut out for the job he really is, it's gonna hurt.
If the Powers restored his dead body parts, then something that will progress through the season is that occassionally Tobit will not be in control of some of the things he does. Basically, the Powers reanimated his body, but they can and will also work through that body. They can make him fight even if he doesn't want to. They can make him not fight when he feels he should.
So a few questions:
What name should we give Tobit’s demon type? How is Tobit in contact with The Powers That Be? (We’d like to avoid visions if possible. He should be higher up on the food chain.) Does he actually go and talk to some ‘avatars’ of The Powers? Something like the Oracles of Season One? Also, how old is he? Is he just like 30 years old or something?
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 11, 2004 17:55:45 GMT
Post by Inyan on Jul 11, 2004 17:55:45 GMT
If hes froma time were good was stronger then its got to be a time before anything weve experienced before; like thousands of years. What if instead he is from another dimension were good rules supreme and he managed to ecscape just before the last demons of that dimension were killed. Or maybe the PTB pulled him out of that dimension because his experiences made him a perfect choice for their purposes.
About the contact thing, How about if he just talks aloud to them and we never hear their responses?
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 11, 2004 19:05:36 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jul 11, 2004 19:05:36 GMT
There is always the mysterious computer messages. (j/k)
I think that he should have a two way dialogue with the PTB but that for a long time, we only see his side. So, he could be talking to himself for several episodes, then we hear a voiceover that replies. Maybe as we get further and further into the season, the voices make more sense to us (because we also know Grace's side of things) but they don't make sense to Tobit, and that's when the PTB start replacing more and more of his body.
Let the flaming of this idea commence!
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 11, 2004 22:22:36 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 11, 2004 22:22:36 GMT
I think that he should have a two way dialogue with the PTB but that for a long time, we only see his side. So, he could be talking to himself for several episodes, then we hear a voiceover that replies. Maybe as we get further and further into the season, the voices make more sense to us (because we also know Grace's side of things) but they don't make sense to Tobit, and that's when the PTB start replacing more and more of his body. I like that idea. We should think about that more. One thing that this question might answer as well is what advantage Angel now has over the PTB as a result of the Chaos (see Grace's Plan thread in Discussions). Like if the PTB had some kind of reps on Earth (like the Oracles from S1) and this Chaos was slowly weakening them or making them more human or something. And that means Angel can kill them. And they are the people that Tobit talks to. I don't know. I think that mirrors The Circle of the Black Thorn WAY too much, but we need some kind of answer like that.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 12, 2004 21:02:25 GMT
Post by Inyan on Jul 12, 2004 21:02:25 GMT
If he's supposed to be at a higher level than Cord and Doyle what if he actually goes and talks to them. It could be quite quirky in the begining. He could have a portal to the powers in the broom closet in his office. He could be like I need to consult with the powers. He steps in to his closet, closes the door and immediately opens it. It could be later that we actually see what happens in the closet. That a portal opens he goes and sees the powers and can spend as much time there as he wants but when he returns anly a couple of second has passed.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 12, 2004 21:33:35 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 12, 2004 21:33:35 GMT
I think I kind of really like that.
|
|
Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
|
Tobit
Jul 12, 2004 23:03:52 GMT
Post by Dismas on Jul 12, 2004 23:03:52 GMT
Here's a really absurb option...
How about Tobit can communicate with the powers via a Magic 8-Ball? Ask a question, shake, get a reply of yes, no, or ask again later. He'll probably have to be able to hear their instructions in another way, but the only way to ask your own questions is through the 8-ball. It doesn't work for anyone but him.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 13, 2004 17:10:45 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jul 13, 2004 17:10:45 GMT
I don't know if this fits the general concept, but I think Tobit should be able to contact The Powers at any time and vice versa. Before, Cordy & Doyle were pretty much at the Powers beck and call, but I think Tobit should have a little more control over the contact.
The broom closet is a good idea - but like I posted earlier, I think for a while we should only see Tobit's side and then later hear the Powers' response.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 13, 2004 21:29:14 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 13, 2004 21:29:14 GMT
Yeah, I think we should just see it one-sided for awhile. But maybe we'd have a scene where it's just one sided. Then cut to another scene with Angel and Spike entering the Shelter, walking and talking, making their way to Tobit's office. They enter his office just as Tobit walks out of his closet. Spike: Were you just in your closet? Tobit: Yeah, I can't seem to find my favorite coat.
We'd just pass it off as something else (except with a much better fake explanation than the one I gave about the coat). It doesn't have to be his closet either. Could be (and probably should be) another place in the Shelter. But - other ideas?
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 15, 2004 20:38:50 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 15, 2004 20:38:50 GMT
What name should we give Tobit’s demon type? What about something simple like: A Lazarus Demon, after Lazarus, who was raised from the dead. Or any kind of alteration of that, like he's an Azarus Demon or something. It probably shouldn't be "Lazarus Demon" - that would give too much away. How is Tobit in contact with The Powers That Be? It seems like the best idea has been to have him talking to them, but we do not hear their side of the conversation. Also, he may talk to them in some sort of secret room in the Demon Shelter. One problem may be: how do we not give away that he's scheming against the forces of good when we show him talking to the Powers? Another problem is that if he talks to them personally, that suggests that he doesn't have any kind of TPTB influence in his brain, which is almost a step down from visions. So maybe he could talk to them in his head and we could show that somehow. Also, how old is he? Is he just like 30 years old or something? I vote that he's young, like 35 or so. The fact that he was hurt when the forces of good (or human forces) became corrupted (had too much power), doesn't have to mean that it was in the distant past. I'm thinking it was more of an isolated incident - not a result of the scales being tipped dramatically in one direction. Also, I think that when he first meets Grace, he should not really like her because she is human. But then as he's around her more, he gets a feel for her. She comforts him. She seems familiar in a very nice way. And that is because she is a former Power and he always has the Powers within him. But he doesn't know who she was, of course. Still, she doesn't intimidate him. So I think he should come to like her and I think they should start a little romance. And then, one evening, when they are having dinner, she does something that makes him suddenly realize that she is the rogue Power and therefore his enemy. He runs out - perhaps directly to the Powers. He apologises profusely, but they are angry. And they punish him with pain (as they can control his body). The Powers decide to fix the problem. A few eps later, Groo shows up to kill Grace. The above last part also would work better if he didn't talk to a physical incarnation of The Powers. If he did, then we would automatically know that The Powers were hurting him. And it'd be nice if he was being hurt and we had an inkling that it was the Powers, but we weren't really sure.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 26, 2004 23:06:58 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 26, 2004 23:06:58 GMT
Yo, it's been awhile. What do people think of the above. Grace and Tobit starting a relationship? Tobit talking to the Powers? Maybe he could go into a room in his head to talk to the Powers. We should really decide on Tobit soon.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 27, 2004 0:45:19 GMT
Post by Joss on Jul 27, 2004 0:45:19 GMT
What I think would work well is that he can at any moment go into a "contact room"
Example: Angel demands some info from the PTB. He threatens/blackmails/bribes/whatevers Tobit to ask the powers. So Tobit just closes his eyes and in his mind and he is in this room where he can talk to the powers. Like a White Room only that for a really long time we can only see his side of the dialouge.
It's basically a combination of all of our ideas so far.
We really should finish Tobit sometime today-tommorrow to once and for all focus on the Apocalypse and Grace's plan which is the last major discussion that we need to have before we start writting.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 27, 2004 7:18:30 GMT
Post by Inyan on Jul 27, 2004 7:18:30 GMT
I really like that: It's like a frikkin' white room in his head ;D That rocks.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 27, 2004 7:21:51 GMT
Post by Inyan on Jul 27, 2004 7:21:51 GMT
I dont know about the grace and tobit romance thing. Its a bit too angel and wr&h; sleeping with the enemy thing. And I know there was no mention of sleeping at all. Just an expression. We've got to be clear about these things. We dont want people thinking grace is a necrophiliac or something...
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 27, 2004 20:04:23 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 27, 2004 20:04:23 GMT
We dont want people thinking grace is a necrophiliac or something... Ahhhhhhh! Gross. I totally didn't think of that. Although seriously as a former Power she might have some kind of weird effect on his body and. . . .this is getting weird, kinky, and perverted - um. . . . . Okay, well I'm going to maintain that we should have some kind of romance this season, whether it be: Grace and Tobit Spike and some demon woman Angel and Spike (done last season) Fred and Tobit Fred and Illyria (there's a dream ) or Andrew and Andrew Or any other combination. I don't think it would be too weird for Grace and Tobit. I honestly believe that it would make sense. he'd feel comfortable with her. And neither would know that the other one is the enemy.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 27, 2004 20:06:30 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 27, 2004 20:06:30 GMT
I do like the white room in his head idea. Although since the white room thing has been done before, it probably shouldn't be white (one new member may disagree ).
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 28, 2004 0:12:17 GMT
Post by Joss on Jul 28, 2004 0:12:17 GMT
I think that it would be okay to have a romance in the season.
At first I was thinking of Fred/Spike but that would make her a bit of a .... well I don't wanna call Fredikins a slut but I kinda just did. At first she had that little crsuh on Angel. Then she was sleeping with Gunn, then she was with Wes for about 54 minutes before Illyria killed her, and now Spike? That would make her have a relationship with every single series regular that was male.... except for Doyle but that was physically imposible.
So now I'm leaning more towards Tobit/Fred. Make the betrayl cut even closer to home.
I originally liked the Spike/demon woman deal but am liking it less the more I think about it.
So a red room then?
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 28, 2004 4:44:35 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jul 28, 2004 4:44:35 GMT
Hi all -
1.. The "new" white room is a good idea, I think - something that neither Spike nor Angel could visit. 2. Fred/Tobit romance also a good idea, especially if we go with the idea that Fred (after the split with Illyria) goes against Angel et al. 3. No Grace and Tobit please. As a former PTB, I think she would have more of a soul connection with Angel and (speaking as a woman) that soul-to-soul thing is sexy as hell even if they don't ever get groiny.
What do you all think? A Grace/Angel unfulfilled romance?
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 28, 2004 9:16:57 GMT
Post by Inyan on Jul 28, 2004 9:16:57 GMT
Not to put to fine a point on it but Grace is like 60, it would be grose. I like the fred/tobit thing. Also maybe tobit's demon class should be the same as doyle's was. Its a nice full circle thing and it would make angel trust him all the more.
|
|
|
Tobit
Jul 28, 2004 21:47:46 GMT
Post by Joss on Jul 28, 2004 21:47:46 GMT
Okay. Tobit/Fred and Tobit's private "white room" have been approved.
Yay! Development!
|
|