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Chaos
Jul 10, 2004 21:07:54 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 10, 2004 21:07:54 GMT
Angel has upset the balance in a most dramatic way. And everyone and everything is basically trying to compensate - all in their own unique and terrifying ways. Even the very universe itself is trying to adjust. And it is doing it through chaos - through entropy. The chaos this season is working on a fundamental level. Demons and Humans are taking on characteristics of one another. They are blending, becoming more alike. The chaos is creating uniformity between demons and humans. This is the reason Fred's soul begins to re-emerge in Illyria, blending Fred and Illyria until both will be destroyed.
It has not yet been decided exactly how this will manifest itself on a wide-spread basis. For the most part, many episodes this season will be exploring just how similar demons and humans can be in a sort of metaphorical way. For example, we will have an ep where there is a female serial killer, and we will also have an ep where we have humans losing their souls (but not dying - as a result of the fundamental entropy).
This thread will most likely be very closely tied with the "Grace's Plan/Good Apocalypse" thread.
The above has been Approved and is in Approved Ideas.
This thread is for a discussion of the previously mentioned "wide-spread" basis and other details of the chaos, not to dispute the outline above.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Chaos
Jul 11, 2004 0:14:48 GMT
Post by Dismas on Jul 11, 2004 0:14:48 GMT
For the most part, many episodes this season will be exploring just how similar demons and humans can be in a sort of metaphorical way. We can also have episodes introducing new similarities in a LITERAL way. Part of the growing chaos could be ordinary humans developing new demonic powers or traits.
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Chaos
Jul 11, 2004 1:10:54 GMT
Post by Joss on Jul 11, 2004 1:10:54 GMT
That's an interesting idea. Maybe a human could develop super-human strenght, or something. Or maybe a woman could be pregnat, everything is going great. Then she goes into labor. Then instead of a human she delivers a demon.
Dunno if it might work, just working out ideas.
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Dismas
Vampire with a Soul
Posts: 97
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Chaos
Jul 11, 2004 1:50:04 GMT
Post by Dismas on Jul 11, 2004 1:50:04 GMT
That's an interesting idea. Maybe a human could develop super-human strenght, or something. Or maybe a woman could be pregnat, everything is going great. Then she goes into labor. Then instead of a human she delivers a demon. Dunno if it might work, just working out ideas. There are tons of different ways to take this. It's like a brand-new Hellmouth, as far as plot devices go. I think I'll head over to the NEW Single Episode ideas thread when I'm ready to post some of these ideas.
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Chaos
Jul 11, 2004 16:38:49 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 11, 2004 16:38:49 GMT
I think the birthing of a demon is pretty cool. It would have to be more than just random. It can't just be: two human parents have a demon child. . .explanation. . .chaos! There'd have to be some reason: Like the human man or human woman have a small bit of demon dna in their past - but suddenly it has flaired to life, creating a full demon in their baby.
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Chaos
Jul 11, 2004 16:48:38 GMT
Post by Joss on Jul 11, 2004 16:48:38 GMT
Yeah it makes more sense if the family had a bit of DDNA (demon DNA) in them, I guess that this might a good sub-plot for a major episode. Something to be going on in the background. Like the pregnat woman in Time Bomb (what is it with pregnat women and sub-plots?).
It's interesting, but no way it can be exteneded to carry an episdoe on it's own.
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Chaos
Jul 11, 2004 17:47:35 GMT
Post by Inyan on Jul 11, 2004 17:47:35 GMT
The two laws of thermodynamics govern energy transformations.
All the activities of our universes, from the life and death of cells to the life and death of stars, are governed by thermodynamics, which is the study of energy and its transformations. When considering thermodynamics, scientists use the term system to an object being studied, whether a cell, an organism, planet earth, the balance between good and evil or the balance between order and chaos. The rest of the universe other than the system being studied is known as the surroundings. A closed system is one that does not exchange energy or matter with its surroundings, whereas an open system does.
There are two laws about energy that apply to all things in the universe. These are known as the first and second laws of thermodynamics.
The total energy in the universe does not change
According to the first law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, although it can be transferred or changed from one for or another. Accordingly the energy of any system and its surroundings is constant. A system may absorb energy from its surroundings, or it may give up some energy to its surroundings, but the total energy content of the system and its surroundings is always the same.
The entropy of the universe is increasing
As energy transformations take place some of the energy is converted into heat energy that is then given off into the cooler surroundings . This energy can never be used again by any organism again for biological work; it is lost, at least from a biological view. However it is not really gone from a thermodynamic point of view because it still exists in the surrounding physical environment.
The second law of thermodynamics can be stated as follows: When energy is converted fron one form to another, some usable energy, that is, energy available to do work, is converted to a less usable form, heat, that disperses into the surroundings. As a result the amount of usable energy available to do work in the universe decreases over time. It is important to realise that the second law of thermodynamics is consistent with the first law; that is, the total amount of energy in the universe is not decreasing with time. However the the total amount of energy available to do work is decreasing over time. Less usable energy is more diffuse, or disorganised. Entropy ( S ) is a measure of this disorder or randomness or Chaos [/i]; organised, usable energy has a low entropy. Whereas disorganised energy has a high entropy. Entropy is continuously increasing in the universe all the time.
Organisms have a high degree of organisation, and a t first glance they appear to refute the second la of thermodynamics. As organisms grow and develop, the maintain a high level of organisation and do not appear to become more disorganised. However organisms are able to maintain there degree of order over time with the constant input of energy from their surroundings by eating.
Now what the hell does this have to do with anything? ? ?
I haven't really worked that bit out yet but; If we break everything down small enough, everything is made of energy ( or to use one of my favourite quotes: “ We are all made of Stars “ ). I think this is probably how the PTB would see things as well. They like order and are trying to enforce it in an increasingly chaotic universe buy perpetuating the fight/balance between good and evil. The most unstable/chaotic forms of energy in the universe are probably biological entities.
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dano
Vampire
Posts: 8
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Chaos
Jul 13, 2004 8:19:38 GMT
Post by dano on Jul 13, 2004 8:19:38 GMT
The most unstable/chaotic forms of energy in the universe are probably biological entities.
------
Interesting insight. And I love it when someone gets all physics-like on us. Right on. If we accept this argument, though, it opens up some insight about what the PTB's might be on about, what their perspective is. And what may wind up being problematic about their point of view.....(I know they're the Big Bad, but I like the idea that it's not quite as simple as that, and more like they just don't get it, when it comes down to brass tacks).
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Chaos
Jul 15, 2004 11:56:06 GMT
Post by Inyan on Jul 15, 2004 11:56:06 GMT
The whole point I was trying to make is that on a universal scale there is no balance. The entire universe is a reaction with mater and energy as reactants and chaos as a product.
Everyting we do adds to this chaos, whether it be making a peice of toast or simply breathing.
Maybe this is the epiphany that the world must have. That eveything is chaos and nothing can be done about it. If you view things in this light every problem we have seem insignificant in comparison.
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Chaos
Jul 16, 2004 4:18:19 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jul 16, 2004 4:18:19 GMT
Oh, I kinda think that season six would be like Einstein's Unified Field Theory, or maybe even the Theory Of Everything (with apologies to Dr. Greene)
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Chaos
Jul 18, 2004 16:33:02 GMT
Post by Drew on Jul 18, 2004 16:33:02 GMT
We've thought about humans becoming more like demons, but demons are also becoming more like humans.
One thing that should come from this is the vanishing of the invite rule for vamps. At some point toward the end of the season, Angel and Spike and all vamps should just be able to walk in anywhere they want. It would be nice if the vanishing of this rule became pivotal for Angel to start this Good Apoc. Like he has to make his way into Tobit's room. And Tobit's all: "Angel! I'd give you an invite, but it-" And Angel has him by the throat. "-doesn't seem like you need one." Angel: "Rule's changed." And he throws him across the room. Or something like that. Question is: what other limitations or abilities would go away. Could vamps walk in sunlight toward the end? I don't know That's a tough one.
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Chaos
Jul 18, 2004 21:38:07 GMT
Post by Joss on Jul 18, 2004 21:38:07 GMT
All through your post I was thinking: what about sunlight? Could they walk in sunlight?
So when in the end you mentioned it I have to say I don't know how it would work. It would be nice, we'd have to be careful, but it would be nice.
Also, sidenote: there have been previous cases of vampire laws being bended when the order of things was out of whack. Somewhere near the end of S7 of Buffy (Touched was the specific episode I think). When evil tipped the scales in it's favor Spike didn't need an invite.
At least I think that's what happened. I haven't watched S7 in while.
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Chaos
Jul 19, 2004 5:28:28 GMT
Post by LizaP on Jul 19, 2004 5:28:28 GMT
There was also the time Angel saved Kate after she swallowed a bottle of pills, and he didn't need an invitation to enter her apartment.
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Chaos
Aug 27, 2004 4:43:56 GMT
Post by angelicslayer on Aug 27, 2004 4:43:56 GMT
i remember when angel did that. so what you guys are trying to say is that since the world is in chaos that a vampie just come uninvited. what the reflection thing. could have changed due to the world being in chaos?
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Chaos
Aug 27, 2004 4:51:30 GMT
Post by Doyle on Aug 27, 2004 4:51:30 GMT
Like he has to make his way into Tobit's room. And Tobit's all: "Angel! I'd give you an invite, but it-" And Angel has him by the throat. "-doesn't seem like you need one." Angel: "Rule's changed." And he throws him across the room. That would be cool, but you are forgetting that the invite rule doesn't apply to demons, only humans. Tobit would obviously know this and wouldn't presume to be safe from Angel entering his room. I do like the idea of the inviation rule being lifted later in the season though.
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Chaos
Aug 27, 2004 15:29:59 GMT
Post by angelicslayer on Aug 27, 2004 15:29:59 GMT
yeah that would be cool to see the invitation rule lifted this season, i agree.
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Chaos
Aug 27, 2004 16:23:03 GMT
Post by Drew on Aug 27, 2004 16:23:03 GMT
That would be cool, but you are forgetting that the invite rule doesn't apply to demons, only humans. Tobit would obviously know this and wouldn't presume to be safe from Angel entering his room. Really? Huh. Seriously? That actually pisses me off because it really highlights how demons get the shaft in this world. They can't even "officially" own or dwell in a place and really call it theirs. That's infuriating! We need to help these guys this season! I suppose to get around this we could have the chaos allow demons to own a place - allowing Tobit to own a place - allowing him to be safe from Angel - but of course the chaos now allows Angel to enter any dwelling without an invite - and that now includes Tobit - so Angel can get at Tobit. That works.....except it will require 14 pages of expositional dialogue.......sigh....
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Chaos
Aug 27, 2004 19:34:34 GMT
Post by Inyan on Aug 27, 2004 19:34:34 GMT
I tend to agree with you Drew. Maybe Tobit is safe in the Shrine room?
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Chaos
Aug 27, 2004 22:51:21 GMT
Post by Drew on Aug 27, 2004 22:51:21 GMT
Well, Angel at the beginning of the season can walk into the Shrine room whenever he pleases so.... And it's funny - I was just watching the ep "Blood Money" - I think that was it, and Merl (the demon Angel went to for help and funny interrogation) was surprised that Angel could just walk into his lair. Angel says it doesn't apply to demon lairs. So if Tobit has an apartment that he has paid for and signed for - does that constitute a lair? Good lord, feel free to neglect this question - it's getting a bit nitpicky.
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Chaos
Aug 28, 2004 0:06:15 GMT
Post by Joss on Aug 28, 2004 0:06:15 GMT
shame, I liked the idea of Angel going to attack Tobit. But technically speaking...isn't Tobit half-demon? Did Angel need an invite for Doyle's place? Was he ever over at Doyle's place? Doyle, do you remember these things?
But even if that has to be factually nixed I still think we should have vampires being able to stroll in un-invited.
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