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Joss
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« Reply #20 on Feb 27, 2005, 2:47am » | ![[Quote]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif) |
True. That's one of the reasons why I would vote for this episode to be 18 (or 19 at the latest). This would have Tobit and PTB as villians for at least four episodes as oposed the the Circle of the Black Thorn who existed for a grand total of two episodes.
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Drew
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« Reply #21 on Feb 27, 2005, 5:01am » | |
Yeah, I've always had 19 in mind. And I don't think it would be rushed even if it was ep. 21. Because we've been setting this stuff up for awhile. The Circle did come out of nowhere. Kinda.
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Knuckles
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« Reply #22 on Mar 12, 2005, 7:37pm » | |
I dont like the idea of this "Third Power" I think therebeing no entity in control of fate would be a better prize for our heroes to be fighting for because it's something they would all like, something that would give our heroes the power they deserve rather than be "more free" but still have a entity in charge.
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Drew
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« Reply #23 on Mar 13, 2005, 6:09pm » | |
Quote:| I dont like the idea of this "Third Power" I think therebeing no entity in control of fate would be a better prize for our heroes to be fighting for because it's something they would all like, something that would give our heroes the power they deserve rather than be "more free" but still have a entity in charge. |
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I agree. I think this season is all about turning Angel into something different. It's all about making him a Power (but not a Power That Be - just to be clear - unless we want to go that route...and I don't think I do).
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When you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.
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Joss
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« Reply #24 on Mar 14, 2005, 3:16am » | |
Well I've never really thought that this "new power" would be as controlling as the PTB, or even the Senior Partners, are. I really think that this Power acted more like a creator and then stepped back.
There's a philosopher in the Enlightenment (can't remember his name for my life) that's kinda similar to what I'm trying to say. He basically believed that God acted as a clockmaster. He had put all of the universe together, set up how it worked, made it start ticking and then didn't intervene after that. This "third power" could be something like that.
But I can really see where you guys are coming from saying that it would be best to not have anything controlling the universe. What I like about the idea of having a third power is that it provides an effective way of getting rid of the necesity for there to be balance. But it does raise the question of whether Angel really got rid of all the outside influence on this world.
Woo-Hoo! We're discussing things again! 
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Drew
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« Reply #25 on Mar 14, 2005, 3:31am » | |
I just never understood the "third power" idea. And I'd rather we kept things simpler. Cutting off both the Senior Partners and TPTB from our world would effectively negate the necessity of balance, in my opinion. It would stop their interference in the fight that is constantly being waged on Earth.
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Joss
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« Reply #26 on Mar 23, 2005, 2:25am » | |
I've been for the last few days to get some idea together for this. I basically always end up with: "It doesn't necesarily have to be another "God" that is imprisoned, it could also be a..." And that's where I draw a blank. I can never actually find a good example of something that could stand for the third power.
So I'm not sure where we stand here. 
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ThePowersThatBe
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« Reply #27 on Mar 24, 2005, 3:42am » | |
Well, if you wanna know where this wacko idea comes from, check out my Dark Tower posts in the ep 7 board (those of you able to, anyway), but here goes:
Who says the third power has to be a "person"?
It could be an inanimate object, something which stands as a placeholder for the third power. Sort of like a talisman, only... well, a talisman sort of channels the powers of an outside source. What I'm thinking is more along the lines of: the third power is from beyond our perception; as such, this inanimate object, or whatever, is the closest our feable human minds can perceive as its true form. Possibly the object is inanimate because the third power is so far removed from us as to be beyond our own laws of physics.
Hell, I dunno, mebbe it just the 'ludes talkin'...
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Joss
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« Reply #28 on Mar 24, 2005, 11:02pm » | |
Quote:Who says the third power has to be a "person"?
It could be an inanimate object, something which stands as a placeholder for the third power. Sort of like a talisman, only... well, a talisman sort of channels the powers of an outside source. What I'm thinking is more along the lines of: the third power is from beyond our perception; as such, this inanimate object, or whatever, is the closest our feable human minds can perceive as its true form. Possibly the object is inanimate because the third power is so far removed from us as to be beyond our own laws of physics.
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This is along that lines of what I've been trying to say but somehow PTB gets to articualte it in less than a day when I have to spend weeks before finally giving up 
This is I think that the only way in which this idea could work out, if the "third power" is more of an inate force, a element, more of a God or a person. In fact it might work best if the third power is not even a conciousness.
But I'm still not completly sure how that could work.
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ThePowersThatBe
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Karma: 2 | | Re: Grace's Plan / Good Apocalypse II
« Reply #29 on Mar 25, 2005, 12:57pm » | |
Quote:
This is along that lines of what I've been trying to say but somehow PTB gets to articualte it in less than a day when I have to spend weeks before finally giving up |
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Truth be told, it's less a gift than the tortured result of having read waaaaay too many intellectual sci-fi stories.
And, hell, while I'm on the subject (which is, sadly off-topic, so immolate at will), if you'd like some other ideas that'll blow your mind, try and pick up the book "Out on Cloud Six." It's insanely difficult to find, as it had a very small press run about fifteen years ago, but it blew my mind. Picture, if you will, the distopia of "1984." Now turn it on its ear. "Cloud Six was the first novel I ever read that aproached the idea of living in the hell that is societal utopia. A society where you MUST be happy, or suffer the consequences. Pretty heady stuff.
Now that I think of it, though, there is one book that DOES apply to the concept we were just discussing. It's a short book, and shouldn't be difficult to track down: Edwin A. Abbott's Flatland. I won't go into too much detail about it here, but theme of it is how our perceptions are defined by the world we live in, and the notion that there things outside of our limited field of vision that, while impossible for us to comprehend, are NOT impossible.l
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Inyan
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Karma: 3 | | Re: Grace's Plan / Good Apocalypse II
« Reply #30 on Apr 2, 2005, 8:44am » | |
Not that this is strictly relevent but it sounds cool and it sorta explains how Grace sees things ie EVERYTHING.
Its an extract from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy By Douglas Adams.
We live in strange times.
We also live in strange places: each in a universe of our own. The people with whom we populate our universe are the shadows of whole other universes intersecting with our own. Being able to glance out into this bewildering complexity of infinite recursion and say things like, "Oh hi, Ed! Nice tan. How's Carol?" involves a great deal of filtering skill for which all conscious entities have eventually to develop a capacity in order to protect themselves from the contemplation of the chaos through which we seethe and tumble.
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Inyan
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« Reply #31 on Apr 17, 2005, 9:02pm » | |
So all we basically have so far is that the PTB and the senior partners want the fight to continue. Neither side wants to upset the balance.
So here's an idea, and it may be crazy.
What if it is revealed that the PTB and the senior partners are one and the same. They are just one race of entities that somehow gain power from the fight between good and evil in our plain of existence. They appear to each side, feeding them just enough information to help keep the fight going.
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Drew
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« Reply #32 on Apr 19, 2005, 2:49pm » | |
No offense, but I think everyone has had that idea at some point. I think it was one of the first ideas posted on our site.
I mean we basically are doing what you just described - except the SP are evil and the PTB are good and they are keeping the fight going between good and evil - just not on their level. They are restricting the fight to ours.
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Inyan
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« Reply #33 on Apr 19, 2005, 5:29pm » | |
Its quite possible. I wasnt around from the beginning. 
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Joss
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« Reply #34 on Apr 20, 2005, 3:31am » | |
Yes, it was one of the first ideas that we contemplated one we started talking about using the PTB as antagonists this season.
And, like Drew says, the PTB and SP are in a way of the same race except that some get their power from good while others are more dependent on evil. But I've always thought that they're the same "kind" of beings.
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Inyan
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« Reply #35 on May 21, 2005, 8:22am » | |
We seriously need new ideas here. Come on people...
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Inyan
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Karma: 3 | | Re: Grace's Plan / Good Apocalypse II
« Reply #36 on Jun 6, 2005, 8:02am » | |
Okay so Angel has had his Soul much longer than any normal being. Now if we consider a soul to be a sort of store for all the good and bad karma a person recieves over his entire life we must concede that Angel will have alot more good Karma/Energy in his soul than any other living being. This idea is a bit scetchy at the moment but here goes.
What if Grace's plan involves Angel's soul( With all it's good Karma) being removed and equaly distributing it among all the beings in this dimension. This would of course mean Angle dying but in a way this could also be a fullfillment of Shanshu in that a bit of him will live on in everyone.
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